Who are the Division 2 composers from Russia and other parts of Eastern Europe?

[Lat-Literal]

Yes - in the same sort of way that Mahler wasn't Austro/German. I included him under "Russian composers I have enjoyed" as he was educated under the Rimsky/Glazunov Russian Music Education system, at St Petersburg Conservatoire.

And we could discuss what Belgium meant to Gliere but it wouldn't be the place for it.

It is quite clear what the thread is designed to do.

I will, of course, have a careful look at the names put forward by teamsaint and others in earlier posts for my own education.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have no idea what division this piece is in (and I'm not even sure what the game being played is!) - but as Premiership bananas, I find it hilariously irresistable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IilpkT16I8

[Petrushka]

Boris Tischenko?

Shostakovich spoke highly of this pupil of his but I've never investigated. Any opinions?

[Lat-Literal]

Boris Tischenko?

Shostakovich spoke highly of this pupil of his but I've never investigated. Any opinions?

Thank you.

Purely on Russians - Arensky, Catoire (French origin), Conus, Denisov, Ippolitov-Ivanov, Kabalevsky, Kapustin, Lyadov, Lyapunov, Medtner, Mosolov, Myaskovsky (Polish born), Roslavets, Shchedrin, Tcherepnin - these are just a few of the names I thought might be mentioned but perhaps the fact that most haven't is directionally informative in itself.

Incidentally, to take Britain as an alternative example, I don't believe for one moment that anyone would seriously place Addinsell or Fenby just below Elgar, Britten or RVW on any sort of scale. Such things may not be specifically written in divisional terms but they very much exist as a way of negotiating the overall picture. This exercise is on those lines.

[teamsaint]

Thank you.

Purely on Russians - Arensky, Catoire (French origin), Conus, Denisov, Ippolitov-Ivanov, Kabalevsky, Kapustin, Lyadov, Lyapunov, Medtner, Mosolov, Myaskovsky (Polish born), Roslavets, Shchedrin, Tcherepnin - these are just a few of the names I thought might be mentioned but perhaps the fact that most haven't is directionally informative in itself.

Incidentally, to take Britain as an alternative example, I don't believe for one moment that anyone would seriously place Addinsell or Fenby just below Elgar or Vaughan Williams on any sort of scale.

IF you fancy a read of more in depth discussion about the Russians and others, as well as accesss to some downloads ( if you register) its worth trying Unsung Composers website.

[Lat-Literal]

IF you fancy a read of more in depth discussion about the Russians and others, as well as accesss to some downloads ( if you register) its worth trying Unsung Composers website.

Thanks - I only discovered that website last week and it does chime but again I'm not necessarily looking here for the unsung which I tend to find anyway.

That is what I like to do. I'm looking to clarify who are sung but not sung with the greatest enthusiasm - and why - beyond any broad anti Russian sentiment.

[Beef Oven!]

Boris Tischenko?

Shostakovich spoke highly of this pupil of his but I've never investigated. Any opinions?

Good call Petrushka- a worthy division 2 Russian composer

Have his 7th symphony on Naxos and attended a performance of his cello concerto with the LSO (LSO principal as soloist) a few years back with Gergiev conducting.

[BBMmk2]

Seems odd not to include Prokofiev?

[Lat-Literal]

Seems odd not to include Prokofiev?

Prokofiev was the third most played composer directly associated with Russia on BBC R3 in 2016.

(He was born in a remote rural estate in the Yekaterinoslav Governorate of the Russian Empire)

He was the sixth most played composer on BBC R3 in 2016 from Eastern European countries as that phrase is generally defined from a British perspective.

That is unequivocally Division 1.

[Lat-Literal]

We might as well have a look at Suffolk Coastal's list:

(Background:

First 15 on R3 - Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartok, Janacek, Rimsky-Korsakov, Part, Smetana, Martinu, Mussorgsky).

Main focus:

The next 15 - Scriabin, Ligeti, Glinka, Glazunov, Kodaly, Borodin, Enescu, Suk................well, that's 8 and that appears to be all above 50 compositions in a year. Astonishing!

So we still need at least 7 if not more.

[Beef Oven!]

We might as well have a look at Suffolk Coastal's list:

Background:

First 15 on R3 - Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartok, Janacek, Rimsky-Korsakov, Part, Smetana, Martinu, Mussorgsky

Main focus:

The next 15 -

Good thinking Lats, lots of ideas there, that are relevant here.

I’ll leave you to troll through.

[cloughie]

Borodin,Kalinnikov, Ippolitov-Ivanov.

[Lat-Literal]

Good thinking Lats, lots of ideas there, that are relevant here.

I’ll leave you to troll through.

Thank you.

I am genuinely surprised by the figures but it explains a lot. Tubin and Eller are among the composers in my collection. Not everyone's cup of tea but somehow I have managed to get a grip on the Baltic states. Elsewhere east, there's floundering and while I didn't set out to turn this into a critique of R3 it might be failing to provide a breadth of education in this area. In contrast, no one would expect it to be, say, Latin American etc in depth. (One of the most off putting things must surely be that the R3 output is so heavily Germanic).

Borodin,Kalinnikov, Ippolitov-Ivanov.

I like those.

[BBMmk2]

Prokofiev was the third most played composer directly associated with Russia on BBC R3 in 2016.

(He was born in a remote rural estate in the Yekaterinoslav Governorate of the Russian Empire)

He was the sixth most played composer on BBC R3 in 2016 from Eastern European countries as that phrase is generally defined from a British perspective.

That is unequivocally Division 1.

Thanks, Lat. I looked up his life's details, to refresh my memory, really, and yes, he was born on a remote large rural estate, in Ukraine.

[Lat-Literal]

Ukraine was not a country when Prokofiev was born. It was a part of Russia although parts if it had been under the territorial influence of the Austrians and similar. Close the thread. It was deliberately knocked off course early on mainly by the hosts, one who has posted regularly but has had nothing constructive to say whatsoever. Disappointing.