When Did Radio Stations Start Recording In Stereo?

[PJPJ]

Mahler 8 with the LSO in the Royal Albert Hall.

Mahler 6 with the Bournemouth SO in the Winter Gardens, Bournemouth.

(The Nielsen 5 is with the New Philharmonia, recorded in "BBC Studios"; recorded in February, 1971, it's in stereo.)

Indeed - I ought to have checked my copy.

[PJPJ]

Thanks. RAH makes sense - just as for Bernstein in the same piece.

Anyone got BBCL 4051-2, a live Mahler 7 with New Philharmonia and Horenstein on August 29th 1969?

I have that RAH performance in an earlier incarnation on the Descant label.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Anyone got BBCL 4051-2, a live Mahler 7 with New Philharmonia and Horenstein on August 29th 1969?

No, and yes - I have that performance, but on the earlier CD incarnation onn Descant that PJ2 mentions (and for which I paid less than a tenth of the current asking price:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-Jascha-Horenstein/dp/B000F62CJQ

... until the Gielen/BPO appeared, my preferred performance of the work. The sound quality on this version is, I would imagine, considerably inferior to that on the BBC Legends.)

[PJPJ]

No, and yes - I have that performance, but on the earlier CD incarnation onn Descant that PJ2 mentions (and for which I paid less than a tenth of the current asking price:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-Jascha-Horenstein/dp/B000F62CJQ

... until the Gielen/BPO appeared, my preferred performance of the work. The sound quality on this version is, I would imagine, considerably inferior to that on the BBC Legends.)

You'd think so, but something seems to have gone wrong along the way which is why I never replaced the Descant. It's one of those instances where the original tape was either wiped or lost.

Horenstein M7 review

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You'd think so, but something seems to have gone wrong along the way which is why I never replaced the Descant. It's one of those instances where the original tape was either wiped or lost.

Horenstein M7 review

( - and <phew!> )

[richardfinegold]

Mahler 8 with the LSO in the Royal Albert Hall.

Mahler 6 with the Bournemouth SO in the Winter Gardens, Bournemouth.

(The Nielsen 5 is with the New Philharmonia, recorded in "BBC Studios"; recorded in February, 1971, it's in stereo.)

That isn't the Nielsen 5 that I was referring to. I have the New Philharmonia recording, which was issued commercially here on the Nonesuch label in the 1970s. I was referring to a BBC Legends release with the Northern Sinfonia. Interestingly neither of these are currently available. The Northern Sinfonia release is in pretty bad mono for 1970; no bass whatsoever.

[richardfinegold]

You'd think so, but something seems to have gone wrong along the way which is why I never replaced the Descant. It's one of those instances where the original tape was either wiped or lost.

Horenstein M7 review

Thanks for that link. I have the M7 on Music and Arts. For years it was my only recording of the work until my Mahler recording collection exploded. I have not listened to it for a while but the criticisms of the recording quality cited in the review seem spot on. This recording would be a nice task for Pristine Audio, which has done some great Horenstein repair jobs

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That isn't the Nielsen 5 that I was referring to. I have the New Philharmonia recording, which was issued commercially here on the Nonesuch label in the 1970s. I was referring to a BBC Legends release with the Northern Sinfonia. Interestingly neither of these are currently available. The Northern Sinfonia release is in pretty bad mono for 1970; no bass whatsoever.

This has flummoxed me a little. There's a Nielsen #3 with the BBC Northern Symphony orchestra on BBC Legends, recorded in Manchester Town Hall on 30th October, 1970 (and coupled with Sibelius #5 with the same orchestra recorded in Sheffield City Hall the next day).

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/June09/Horenstein_Nielsen3_bbcl42492.htm

I can't find any reference to Horenstein conducting the Northern Sinfonia.

[Gordon]

This has flummoxed me a little. There's a Nielsen #3 with the BBC Northern Symphony orchestra on BBC Legends, recorded in Manchester Town Hall on 30th October, 1970 (and coupled with Sibelius #5 with the same orchestra recorded in Sheffield City Hall the next day).

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/June09/Horenstein_Nielsen3_bbcl42492.htm

I can't find any reference to Horenstein conducting the Northern Sinfonia.

There must be some confusion over the names here - the NS formed in 1958 is a small orchestra based in Newcastle and I don't think it was much recorded if at all by the BBC in the period we are considering here. Probably should be the BBCNSO.

Regarding the Neilsen 3*/Sibelius 5 Legends CD recorded in Town Halls, the review marks the issue as mono. It is almost certain that the recording facilities in these "provincial" locations were still only mono. Same probably applied to BBC Scotland and the BBC Welsh in Cardiff. Any relays of concerts from these locations would be contributed to network in mono. At this time the Radio Times listings used to mark the concerts that were in stereo. Sometimes a concert would appear on R4 in those days.

* EDIT to correct my error to say originally it was #5! See later posting below.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Regarding the Neilsen 5/Sibelius 5 Legends CD recorded in Town Halls, the review marks the issue as mono. It is almost certain that the recording facilities in these "provincial" locations were still only mono. Same probably applied to BBC Scotland and the BBC Welsh in Cardiff. Any relays of concerts from these locations would be contributed to network in mono. At this time the Radio Times listings used to mark the concerts that were in stereo.

Indeed, and thanks for this - but (just to be accurate) it isn't Nielsen 5 on that disc; it's Nielsen 3 - the Sinfonia Espansiva (with Alexandra Browning and Colin Wheatley the solo voices). rfg's Horenstein/BBCNSO (NS) recording of the Nielsen #5 is still eluding me.

And, apparently, the Sheffield concert was the only known time that Horenstein conducted the Sibelius!

Sometimes a concert would appear on R4 in those days.

I didn't know that. When I started listening to broadcast concerts in 1974, I think this no longer happened.

[cloughie]

Indeed, and thanks for this - but (just to be accurate) it isn't Nielsen 5 on that disc; it's Nielsen 3 - the Sinfonia Espansiva (with Alexandra Browning and Colin Wheatley the solo voices). rfg's Horenstein/BBCNSO (NS) recording of the Nielsen #5 is still eluding me.

And, apparently, the Sheffield concert was the only known time that Horenstein conducted the Sibelius!


I didn't know that. When I started listening to broadcast concerts in 1974, I think this no longer happened.

There was one concert per week as I recall, billed as Music of the Masters, possibly as late as 1980. Also remember BBC Northern SO concerts recorded at Sheffield City Hall with free entry. Some googling corrects this. It was Music to Remember. This was the free concert recorded one afternoon for later broadcast on Radio 4 on October 29 1972
20.00: Music to Remember

AMARYLLIS FLEMING (cello) BBC NORTHERN SYMPHONY
ORCHESTRA leader BARRY GRIFFITHS conductor BRYDEN THOMSON
Schumann Symphony No 4, in D minor
8.30* Elgar Cello Concerto In E minor
Contributors
Cello: Amaryllis Fleming
Leader: Barry Griffiths
Conductor: Bryden Thomson

[Gordon]

Indeed, and thanks for this - but (just to be accurate) it isn't Nielsen 5 on that disc; it's Nielsen 3 - the Sinfonia Espansiva (with Alexandra Browning and Colin Wheatley the solo voices). rfg's Horenstein/BBCNSO (NS) recording of the Nielsen #5 is still eluding me.

And, apparently, the Sheffield concert was the only known time that Horenstein conducted the Sibelius!


I didn't know that. When I started listening to broadcast concerts in 1974, I think this no longer happened.

My mistake, it was #3 not #5!

[Ferretfancy]

Though not quite a Mahlerite, I attended the Horenstein 8 and was bowled over by it. At the time I was working in BH Control Room, and the stereo experiments were organised by an engineer called Dave Stripp. Most of us were interested in stereo, and remember that stereo LPs were already on the market although the early reproducing equipment was nor very good.

The Saturday morning trials were a bit of a performance, and Dave used a clever subterfuge in order to preserve phase information as accurately as possible. Since one channel was transmitted from Wrotham in FM and the other from the Crystal Palace TV transmitter, it was necessary to send the Crystal Palace channel by music line to Brookmans Park and back to balance the length of the two landlines.

Of course, if you were listening at home there was no guarantee that the speakers in your radio and TV were in Phase with each other.

On those Saturdays in the Control Room there were two big LSU 10 speakers suitably spaced, but very little room for an audience, especially as a very large assistant technical manager occupied the sweet spot in a massive chair! We all queued up like a group of line dancers between the units as steam trains and games of ping pong zoomed past.

Dave had a small stereo lab in 1A Portland Place, just opposite the Langham, and on the night of the Horenstein Mahler we dashed back from the hall to sample the tape. The RAH did not have any local recording facilities at the time, so the BBC relied on high quality PO lines to link the hall with BH. I think it was recorded on a modified EMI BTR2 machine, probably on two, as tapes only ran for 30 minutes a reel.

Regarding the record companies, Decca in Geneva and RCA in Chicago started recording in stereo in 1954. Decca's first stereo recording was Rimsky Korsakov's Antar and it can still be found on A Decca Legend CD. The famous Reiner Also Sprach Zarathustra was an RCA experimental recording, not intended for release, but it soon appeared on a stereo LP.

I still love those pioneering recordings, they tie me in to exciting times dashing to the Radio Shows and the first audio fairs. Getting it right wasn't easy back then, but what fun it was on a very low budget!

[richardfinegold]

This has flummoxed me a little. There's a Nielsen #3 with the BBC Northern Symphony orchestra on BBC Legends, recorded in Manchester Town Hall on 30th October, 1970 (and coupled with Sibelius #5 with the same orchestra recorded in Sheffield City Hall the next day).

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/June09/Horenstein_Nielsen3_bbcl42492.htm

I can't find any reference to Horenstein conducting the Northern Sinfonia.

My mistake it was a Nielsen 3, coupled with a Sibelius 5. I realized my mistake after I went to exercise this morning and listened to the relevant files from my phone.
However, my basic point is the same-this recording dates from around 1970 and while it's listenable, it is clearly below recording standards of it's time

[Petrushka]

I didn't know that. When I started listening to broadcast concerts in 1974, I think this no longer happened.

Live Radio 4 concert relays were definitely still going (usually on a Thursday, I think) as late as 1983 because I was present at an LPO/Tennstedt Mahler 6 that was broadcast on R4 in March 1983. Not sure when the practise ceased but can't have been much later. Never heard that performance since!