Rediscovering Toscanini

[jayne lee wilson]

Looks like you've added a book to read to my list - though I read very slowly. Life gets in the way.

I know the feeling well!

[Barbirollians]

I assumed rediscovering Toscanini was a musical thread if not I am glad it is here and hope off topic arguments about him can stay here rather than on Beethoven 8 thread .

[Once Was 4]

Before a few days ago I didn't care one way or another - or even know anything about it.

You seem to want to paint him as a monster - and I'm not sure that he was - not yet anyway. If he was, I also doubt that he was the only one like that in the conducting profession.

In fact more than one conductor spoken about with awe on this forum is/was a repulsive character in daily life. A very distinguished jazz musician, who is also a leading light in the Musicians Union, once told me that she "quite likes classical music but cannot tolerate it because it is undemocratic - those conductors!" Hmmm, I do know several people from the jazz (and rock) worlds and some of their inside stories are revealing as well! One ex-pupil who is married to a renowned artist from the rock world of the 60s has told me stories that I find quite astounding; I personally have not encountered anything as bad in the classical world although I have heard rumours.

Perhaps it is a question of art being a mirror of society but, if one thinks too hard about it, one does become a little depressed.

[richardfinegold]

I assumed rediscovering Toscanini was a musical thread if not I am glad it is hear and hope off topic arguments about him can stay here rather than on Beethoven 8 thread .

I wouldn't view the discussion as OT, Barbs. Toscanini reputation as a tyrant is central to his story. I was relating how American Critics were so surprised that the rehearsal extracts contained in the Immortal Performances discs were so antithetical to that image, which then begs the question of whether or not T needed to throw the occasional tantrum to achieve the results that he did. Remember the OP was reviewing a biographical documentary, not a specific recording.

[Dave2002]

Some conductors seem more relaxed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOz6LlFbPHk Celibidache.

Odd "outburst" around 4 mins 30 secs, then whistling!

[Barbirollians]

I wouldn't view the discussion as OT, Barbs. Toscanini reputation as a tyrant is central to his story. I was relating how American Critics were so surprised that the rehearsal extracts contained in the Immortal Performances discs were so antithetical to that image, which then begs the question of whether or not T needed to throw the occasional tantrum to achieve the results that he did. Remember the OP was reviewing a biographical documentary, not a specific recording.

They were off topic on the Beethoven 8 thread .

[teamsaint]

In fact more than one conductor spoken about with awe on this forum is/was a repulsive character in daily life. A very distinguished jazz musician, who is also a leading light in the Musicians Union, once told me that she "quite likes classical music but cannot tolerate it because it is undemocratic - those conductors!" Hmmm, I do know several people from the jazz (and rock) worlds and some of their inside stories are revealing as well! One ex-pupil who is married to a renowned artist from the rock world of the 60s has told me stories that I find quite astounding; I personally have not encountered anything as bad in the classical world although I have heard rumours.

Perhaps it is a question of art being a mirror of society but, if one thinks too hard about it, one does become a little depressed.

Unfortunately , and unsurprisingly ,the classical world is pretty much in the grip of the cult of the celebrity as any other world.
I don't find it depressing really, although I might if it directly impacted me.

I find nepotism far more irritating.

[Once Was 4]

Unfortunately , and unsurprisingly ,the classical world is pretty much in the grip of the cult of the celebrity as any other world.
I don't find it depressing really, although I might if it directly impacted me.

I find nepotism far more irritating.

Wot?! You have found out that it was my Mum who got me into the local church choir 61 years ago when I was aged 8! Rumbled at last!

[Dave2002]

I noticed that the current (it was when I saw it) copy of the Gramophone has features about Toscanini.

I gave up Gramophone some while back, and haven't yet made an exception even for a single copy.