Conductor Carlos Kleiber

[vinteuil]

I quote from John Fowles: "Beecham... a pompous little duck*rsed band-master who stood against everything creative in the art of his time."

Not that I would in any way defend Lebrecht of course!

... agree with all that, of course. Except that I wd never defend or use as evidence John Fowles

[Richard Barrett]

Except that I wd never defend or use as evidence John Fowles

Agreed, though he was spot on there, no?

[pastoralguy]

I've always wondered what Fowles' motive was in writing that sentence. Of course, the context of that exclamation is that G.P. is very angry at Miranda's friends for being patronising towards him so, actually, Beecham gets off quite lightly.

[Richard Barrett]

I've always wondered what Fowles' motive was in writing that sentence. Of course, the context of that exclamation is that G.P. is very angry at Miranda's friends for being patronising towards him so, actually, Beecham gets off quite lightly.

I would say that JF is speaking directly through GP, not for the only time.

Offtopic, but JF's reputation seems to have taken quite a nosedive, as witness vinteuil's comment. It's many years since I read anything of his but I remember that at a certain age I found The Magus highly thought-provoking, obviously very much of its time in terms of things like sexual politics but it has certainly stuck firmly in my mind, as has The Collector.

[Tetrachord]

I quote from Sir Thomas Beecham:

"Those who can - Play. Those who can't - Teach (or talk about it)"

What a way to make a living!

HS

Well, that's certainly got me covered!!!

But what can have been Lebrecht's motive in writing in that way about Kleiber? I think he responded so defensively because of the inevitable back-lash he's had to endure!! And rightly so.

[Barbirollians]

Well, that's certainly got me covered!!!

But what can have been Lebrecht's motive in writing in that way about Kleiber? I think he responded so defensively because of the inevitable back-lash he's had to endure!! And rightly so.

Well it depends whether he wrote the headline or as commonly happens a sub editor does and then the journalist gets it in the neck

[Tetrachord]

Well it depends whether he wrote the headline or as commonly happens a sub editor does and then the journalist gets it in the neck

Except that the closing line was "He was the greatest non-conductor we have ever seen". Hardly a ringing endorsement, so the sub must have gleaned a certain idea from the piece to provide that headline.

[Tetrachord]

Somebody has mentioned Thomas Beecham in this thread and it aroused my interest because, like Kleiber, Beecham never became a musician before going into conducting and was self-taught (except that Kleiber learned from watching his father during the formative years). Indeed, colleagues of Kleiber said he was never any good at playing the piano ('you always knew when he was playing because of all the wrong notes'!) and, according to Wiki, Beecham had 'hands which were too small' (the excuses some people make!). Both men studied 'counterpoint'.

Are there any other conductors who've never been proficient on a musical instrument? These are the only two I know about. And it seems odd.

[Tetrachord]

Conductor Carlos Kleiber

For those interested in this phenomenal musician I offer this documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta8Tqjn7Suo