Conductor Carlos Kleiber

[Tetrachord]

I've been watching this today; the quality of which is shocking, but it turned up in a documentary on Kleiber called "A Trace to Nowhere". The footage is from the pit at Bayreuth during a circa 1974 full dress rehearsal (I'm guessing not a performance because of Kleiber's clothing) of "Tristan". These images were taken from the monitor used to connect the pit to the dressing rooms during performances (so everybody knew when their cue was coming).

I have to admit that the sections from 38 minutes onwards have had me reaching for the box of tissues on multiple occasions!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbdSmDmkcIc

(I've sent it to a friend who is a Wagner nut and he wouldn't watch it because "the quality is terrible"!!!!!)

[arthroceph]

That Kleiber Freischeutz .. sure, but he has to share to share the limelight with Schreier who is absolutely stunning in that recording.

[Tetrachord]

That Kleiber Freischeutz .. sure, but he has to share to share the limelight with Schreier who is absolutely stunning in that recording.

Agreed, but Carlos would have done the rehearsing/coaxing to get that result.

Something terribly moving today. I was reading aloud to my husband a passage in Barber's book "Communicating with Carlos", the letters in which I have now finished (more about that on another day). In the first section of the book this paragraph caught my eye and I started reading it aloud but became emotionally overcome just before the sentence I have highlighted, as I could see it coming..... nothing could be more beautifully written and true.

"Generations to come will marvel that there ever was such an artist on the podium. He had the most eloquent baton of the modern era. Powerful and mesmerizing, supple and exacting, controlling and liberating. No one spoke more compellingly in every language of sound. In conducting's most visible aspect, no one even came close. Carlos was the Aurora Borealis of light and transparency, all electric and surprising, and perfect in beauty".

My husband and I were in the Arctic Circle last year and experienced the Aurora Borealis and we were both powerfully affected by the image in these comments about Carlos Kleiber. I needed to share this with you.

[Pulcinella]

Carlos Kleiber's 1975 DG recording of Die Fledermaus is the subject of Classics Reconsidered in July's Gramophone.
Deemed a classic recording indeed, but not first choice as a library recommendation because of Rebroff's contribution.

[Tetrachord]

Carlos Kleiber's 1975 DG recording of Die Fledermaus is the subject of Classics Reconsidered in July's Gramophone.
Deemed a classic recording indeed, but not first choice as a library recommendation because of Rebroff's contribution.

Thanks so much; how can I get a copy of the article as I was once a subscriber to "Gramophone" for 20+ years but gave it up in the late 90s.

[Pulcinella]

Thanks so much; how can I get a copy of the article as I was once a subscriber to "Gramophone" for 20+ years but gave it up in the late 90s.

At your local library, perhaps, if you still have one, or from your newsagent, I guess.
I get the printed version as a subscriber still.
Even if I got the online version I doubt that I could share an article by posting on this board; others might know.

PS: It looks like the articles eventually end up on their website.
Here's the February 2016 one (on Korngold's Violin concerto), which is datestamped 9 June 2016.

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/classics-reconsidered-heifetzs-recording-of-korngolds-violin-concerto

[Tetrachord]

At your local library, perhaps, if you still have one, or from your newsagent, I guess.
I get the printed version as a subscriber still.
Even if I got the online version I doubt that I could share an article by posting on this board; others might know.

PS: It looks like the articles eventually end up on their website.
Here's the February 2016 one (on Korngold's Violin concerto), which is datestamped 9 June 2016.
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/...iolin-concerto

Thanks a lot! Heifetz was a god as far as Kleiber was concerned; he absolutely raved about him!!

[Tetrachord]

I've completed my reading of all Kleiber's letters contained in the book by Charles Barber, his correspondent, in "Communicating with Carlos". These raise some interesting questions - more, in fact, than are answered. Firstly, I have wondered about the mental state of Kleiber - perhaps he was a heavy drinker - from many of the infantile exchanges and the cutesy false names he gave himself; for example, he'd refer to himself as "Emily Dickinson's dog, Carlos" as he was a great admirer of this poet and her work. In fact, he'd sign off many of the letters in that vein - and the body of them contained many "woof woofs", which I'll admit I didn't find amusing but they didn't annoy me outright as they probably would many others; I pressed on regardless. Kleiber certainly had some very strange ideas about life and some of his comments were just ridiculous.

Actually I agree with one of the book's critics who said that no inner life of Kleiber was revealed in any of this correspondence. But why should it be? Barber and Kleiber were not on 'intimate' terms; I guess I just expected the letters to be more serious and consistent. (Barber does say that the letters from 2002 to 2003 were 'wholly personal' and he wisely chose not to include these in the book. So, it took 14 years for Kleiber to trust Barber enough that he could make these personal feelings known!! These would have come at the end of the conductor's life when he was diagnosed with cancer, and shortly before the death of his own ailing wife.

Carlos Kleiber had plenty of criticisms of conductors past and contemporary, including "that thug Mehta"!!! And Kleiber loathed both Abraham Lincoln and Ghandi; there was much venom directed towards these two hugely influential political figures. In fact, after some of his ramblings I remember thinking to myself, "oh, just shut up and conduct!". Barber had not solicited Kleiber's comments on these historical luminaries.

But Kleiber's musical insights, of course, were the essence of the correspondence - and my interest in them - and these raise some interesting questions. He goes into details of how Barber should approach scores and that these need to be heavily marked, with specific cues and directions which only the conductor should provide the orchestra beforehand. This is a painstaking task and, Kleiber insists, essential to excellent performances. He also points out "mistakes" in composers' works; for example, he specifically tells Barber to ignore 'incorrect' crescendo/decrescendo markings in a Beethoven score - illustrating on his notepaper to make the point. Kleiber insists some scores have their share of mistakes!! Imagine "correcting" Beethoven!!!! I guess it comes to down which edition you're using. But undoubtedly the great Kleiber was a "dictator" (but a very human one!), as described in one documentary "Traces to Nowhere".

Clearly, after reading Kleiber's correspondence, you can observe the evolution of the role of the conductor. The cult of the 'personality' is writ large in Kleiber's aesthetic, I think, despite his insistence upon the primacy of the music. From the 18th century when conductors were not needed (until at least the end of it), right through to the 19th century importance of a conductor because of the augmentation in orchestral scoring, larger venues and longer works, to the modern era of the 'conductor as personality' we have now testimony from one important figure from the 20th century who seems to claim some kind of equal importance to the composer.

And something funny. Interviewed for the documentary "I am Lost to the World" (available through Berliner Philharmoniker Digital Concert Hall) Kai Bernhoeft from the Bavarian State Orchestra said of Klieber, "he's not for everybody; it's like having candy every day. Two or three times a week, 'Der Rosenkavalier'? I could have killed him with a tomahawk!!"

Can anyone detect anything not quite right or different here in the Allegretto of Beethoven #7 from about 15'50" for the next minute or so? It sounds a bit strange to me in the flute/s. Something about the appoggiaturas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCmlPX0EwYQ

[Tetrachord]

I'm finding more interesting articles about Kleiber and this latest one discusses how one might objectively evaluate the achievements of a conductor so that much of the myth surrounding him can be dispelled. I did notice a couple of errors in the essay and it influenced my reception of it, but it's still worthwhile nevertheless the the Kleiberphiles! Again, it is characterized by arguing that myth ought to be separated from reality but I feel it falls short in that respect.

http://www.academia.edu/11178507/Conducting_objectivity_Carlos_Kleiber_and_the_perpetuation_of_a_myth

There's an excellent potential source for a TV or radio program in all of this - the opportunity to re-evaluate the myths surrounding the cult of Kleiber; separating the facts from the myths. Also, the PhD dissertation by Watson - available on the net - provides the single biggest study of conducting techniques which could illuminate any discussion. But, I add a caveat; little or nothing has been studied as to how a musician or musicians collectively interpret the gestures of a conductor during performance. For example, how do they 'learn' his semaphore and, if they're not watching him most of the time (and you can see by recordings that they're not - and Kleiber says so in his letters) how do they respond accordingly? This enigmatic and seldom-discussed aspect of conducting would make a fascinating further study. For me - superficially at least - the 'answer' to that conundrum must be that the rehearsal is key. Unless and until we hear differently from orchestral musicians that comment must remain speculative.

[slarty]

The art of watching or not watching a conductor is not a great secret. The one thing in common that almost all musicians have is good periphiral vision. One does not move the head to watch him/her, one just makes a small eye movement to catch the important changes of tempo, it is like driving a car, the eyes are watching the road in front, but with minimum flicks of the eye, not head or neck, the eyes can look right, left and also the rear view mirror.
one needed to keep more of an eye on Kleiber because of his use of rubato, now all this would be worked out in rehearsal, but if we did not look at him at the time of these rubato moments or changes of tempo then the playing would become much more ragged.
Once the introduction to the opening of the Beethoven 7th is underway and the tempo is set, there is less need to constantly refer to the conductor - and we could play quite easily to the end of the movement without him - one example.
However, Tristan, which he conducted quite often demands that much more attention is given to the baton. Otherwise it would sound terrible. I remember just such an occasion when Goodall was rehearsing the prelude to Act 1 Tristan and could not get the orchestra to play together, they just did not understand what he was trying to do, Reggie was very shy and took great pains to explain what he was doing, and on re starting, we still did not get it. eventually we did.
Kleiber's technique, on the other hand was second to none. The LSO had just the one chance with him when he stepped in to conduct for the dying Karl Böhm, a pair of concerts, first in Milan. then in London. They got on with him like a house on fire, a real meeting of minds, it would probably have been a long relationship had not the London critics lambasted the concert at the RFH so badly.
An orchestra does not have to like a conductor to give a good performance as long as they respect him.
It may seem like, to the uninitiated, that an orchestra sometimes is on autopilot, but I can assure you it is not.
Once the orchestra gets beyond the semi-chamber size, 35 to 45, and above 60, then it is well nigh impossible to give such a precision performance without looking at him.
Kleiber used (mostly) the then tradional size of orchestra, 16, 14, 12, 10 and 8 basses - that is 60 just for the strings.
Add the standard 8 winds, 4 horns, 2 trumpets, three trombones and percussion and we are close to 80 for Beethoven.
For Tristan or Wozzeck there are substantially more players.
So don't believe everything you see, we are a sly bunch, you may think that we are not watching, but we are. Professional Orchestras are not in the habit of bringing criticism onto themselves, just because of disinterest.
One final point, playing together within an orchestra calls for, above all, an iron discipline towards the whole and a submergence of one's individual feelings to be able to play and keep together.
That LSO concert I mentioned earlier, was one of the greatest experiences I ever had, the public went crazy after the end, the next day we were all completely bemused at the reviews, and Kleiber was so distraught that he insisted that the BBC destroy the tapes which were made for broadcasting at a later date.

[Tetrachord]

Well, this is just wonderful - thank you so very much. It was Kleiber himself, in one of the letters to Barber, who said the orchestra mostly doesn't look at the conductor, and that's why I raised the issue. He was very specific in those same letters about the placement of the instruments, particularly the 2nd violins and celli. And he even drew a diagram on his letter for a particular work and said that this configuration could be changed for another work.

How wonderful to work with that magician of a conductor!! He was so sensitive to criticism! In one of the documentaries he writes to a friend about his wife having died, "She was a Samurai; what am I? A sissy". Memorable comments from a conductor known for memorable comments. (Through my research I'm finding that his relationship with Stanka was rather a co-dependent one.)

I still think that interpreting that semaphore of Kleiber, or any conductor, remains arcane for the rest of us. The idea that the wave of a baton can cause an instant response in sound is fantastic to me; like navigating the Queen Mary as though it were a speed-boat!! It only demonstrates to me the phenomenal, multi-layered skills of the orchestral musician.

And you're so right; you don't have to like the conductor. "The Screaming Skull" is evidence of that! But what separates the true professional from the prima donna is that consistency in playing, in doing the job no matter what. And there must be times when a conductor asks for a performance of a piece that you think absolutely stinks!!! I know I wouldn't have the temperament to press on regardless. I'd feel compelled to imply that it doesn't work, like the violinist second from the right of David in Die Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen, session with David Fray. If looks could kill!! (And note at the beginning the elegant and beautiful Chiara Muti!!!): it occurs at 6'03" to 6'20". He's very sour!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV_L7kh08cE

[Tetrachord]

I've listened very closely to Kleibers Beethoven #7 Allegretto (1975 VPO) and compared this to Haitink (1985 Concertgebouw) and the playing of the double appoggiaturas, particularly in the Flutes. These sound quite different. I actually prefer the Kleiber!! Though, apart from that, there seems little between them except the brilliant brass entries in the Kleiber. And the tempo in the Presto is generally faster in the Kleiber, but it's so deliciously clear and jaunty!! (Critics complained about Kleiber's tendency towards faster tempi overall in his orchestral conducting, but I've never been disappointed with these.) And somehow all the 'working parts' are on individual display with Maestro Kleiber!!!

It shows what subtle differences there can be between two first class performances!!

[Tetrachord]

I just contacted Norman Lebrecht by email about his suggestion that "Carlos Kleiber was not a great conductor"

http://www.scena.org/columns/lebrecht/040730-NL-kleiber.html

He wrote back angrily; "I never said that Carlos Kleiber was not a great conductor; you need to retract that statement".

Why would he use that headline then deny having said it? He has been found out!! Either as a liar or a poor writer, or both.

[Hornspieler]

I just contacted Norman Lebrecht by email about his suggestion that "Carlos Kleiber was not a great conductor"

http://www.scena.org/columns/lebrecht/040730-NL-kleiber.html

He wrote back angrily; "I never said that Carlos Kleiber was not a great conductor; you need to retract that statement".

Why would he use that headline then deny having said it? He has been found out!! Either as a liar or a poor writer, or both.

I quote from Sir Thomas Beecham:

"Those who can - Play. Those who can't - Teach (or talk about it)"

What a way to make a living!

HS

[Richard Barrett]

I quote from Sir Thomas Beecham

I quote from John Fowles: "Beecham... a pompous little duck*rsed band-master who stood against everything creative in the art of his time."

Not that I would in any way defend Lebrecht of course!