Conductor Carlos Kleiber

[Belgrove]

From a profile on Haitink appearing in the Guardian back in 2004...

Simon Rattle tells the story of how he and Haitink were sitting in a Covent Garden box at a closed Kleiber rehearsal of Otello. When it ended, Haitink turned to Rattle and said: "Well, I don't know about you, but I think that my studies in this art have only just begun."

Also this remarkable footage from the Bayreuth pit. Kleiber is mesmerizing, almost dancing on the podium, and although the picture is grainy and the sound rough, the performance is incandescent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTLAVsNrE88

[Tetrachord]

Thank you so much, Belgrove, that was absolutely wonderful. I'm sitting here in tears after that. There would be so few of us on this planet who enjoy our professions/occupations as much as Kleiber obviously did.

[Nick Armstrong]

Also this remarkable footage from the Bayreuth pit. Kleiber is mesmerizing, almost dancing on the podium, and although the picture is grainy and the sound rough, the performance is incandescent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTLAVsNrE88

Yes, thank you Belgrove! Never seen that before. Mesmerizing is the word. Thank heavens he had a soprano worthy of the moment - a comment says it was Catarina Ligendza ... in which case, could this from 1974 be a sound recording of the same passage, same production, different microphones...?*

* I see CK conducted T&I with Ligendza in '74, '75 and '76 so I suppose Belgrove's video could be from any of those seasons.

[Tetrachord]

I'm absolutely on my knees after just listening/watching this. Kleiber with the Vienna Philharmonic and Brahms #2 from 1991. I thought his Brahms #4 with the same orchestra was stunning and I have the CD but it's so much better to WATCH. Check out 7'50" to 8'10". He was married to a ballerina and, at times, he dances himself. Wow factor x 100!! And he thinks the additional applause at the beginning is for the orchestra; it was for Kleiber himself!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmkl7GM_es

Don't we all know EXACTLY how Kleiber feels!!! And, across the road about 100m away in Ressel Park sits Brahms, facing the Musikverein, on a brass plinth. I've been in that revered hall myself dozens of times.

[slarty]

If you can lay hands on the Memories CD issue with Ein Heldenleben, you wil find on disc 2 of that issue, that you actually have the unreleased Sony CD of that concert.
Sony actually got as far as printing CD covers, but it was withdrawn before release. The CD performance was edited by Sony from 3 live performances, and the story goes that
the edit that CK approved was turned down by Rainer Küchl, concertmaster and the edit that Küchl approved was vetoed by CK.
Apparently a few copies were released, and the Memories CD issue has used it.
I have the CD cover but I will not upload it as it has Sony's name and logo on it.

[Tetrachord]

Is this the one because it says on the Amazon info that the recording of Brahms #2 comes from 1998. The U-Tube performance is 1991.

https://www.amazon.com/Kleiber-Conducts-Mozart-Symphony-Heldenleben/dp/B0013345VI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1464776332&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Carlos+Kleiber+En+heldenleben

[Barbirollians]

Yes - I certainly don't buy the Lebrechtian nonsense about Kleiber Senior dying embittered and unfulfilled, though he undoubtedly cast a long shadow over Junior's life and career.

In the film about Carlos Kleiber shown on Sky Arts a couple of years back wasn't there a suggestion that CK believed EK had committed suicide after being rejected by the Vienna State Opera ?

[Barbirollians]

This thread reminded me I had not listened to his DG Brahms 4 in ages - wonderful performance .

[LHC]

From a profile on Haitink appearing in the Guardian back in 2004...

Simon Rattle tells the story of how he and Haitink were sitting in a Covent Garden box at a closed Kleiber rehearsal of Otello. When it ended, Haitink turned to Rattle and said: "Well, I don't know about you, but I think that my studies in this art have only just begun."

Also this remarkable footage from the Bayreuth pit. Kleiber is mesmerizing, almost dancing on the podium, and although the picture is grainy and the sound rough, the performance is incandescent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTLAVsNrE88

I queued for most of the night with friends for standing tickets to see Kleiber conduct Otello at Covent Garden. It was incandescent and remains probably the greatest performance of any work I think I have seen. After the performance the three of us stood outside Covent Garden shaking our heads, all of us quite unable to put into words what we had seen or how we felt. I was unable to listen to any music for over a week afterwards.

Still the best £2 I have spent on a ticket anywhere!

[Tetrachord]

I'm extremely touched by this anecdote, LHC, and can completely relate to what you're saying. Yesterday with my music group I was talking about Kleiber and his 1991 Brahms #2 with the VPO and I started to get moist in the eyes just talking about it. Incredibly, the man I was having this discussion with had never heard all the Brahms symphonies and didn't know how many that composer had written; he's a huge Wagner fan.

When I lived in Vienna I can vividly recall my very first night at the Musikverein; Kissin was playing an all-Liszt evening and he finished with the beautiful transcription of Schumann's "Widmung" as an encore. A man in the opposite Balkon Loge had his hand resting over the railing and was turning it ever so slightly with each tender lilt in the melody, quite unconsciously. I remember walking out of the Grossensaal and it was a very cold January evening; the fog shrouded Karlskirche (over the road) in an unusual blue haze and I was suddenly very physically overcome with tears as I headed towards the U-Bahn.

Why is this all so emotional for many of us?

[Tetrachord]

If you can lay hands on the Memories CD issue with Ein Heldenleben, you wil find on disc 2 of that issue, that you actually have the unreleased Sony CD of that concert.
Sony actually got as far as printing CD covers, but it was withdrawn before release. The CD performance was edited by Sony from 3 live performances, and the story goes that
the edit that CK approved was turned down by Rainer Küchl, concertmaster and the edit that Küchl approved was vetoed by CK.
Apparently a few copies were released, and the Memories CD issue has used it.
I have the CD cover but I will not upload it as it has Sony's name and logo on it.

As a growing Kleiberophile, I want to lay my hands on his ravishing Brahms #2 which Tom Service talked about in 2011 when reviewing the book of correspondence between Kleiber and Charles Barber. I've read that the earlier version was superior to the 1991 or 1992 with the Vienna Philharmonic and which seems available. Can you tell me where I can get my hands on the earlier version please? Anyone?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

When I lived in Vienna I can vividly recall my very first night at the Musikverein;

I'm jealous already.

[Tetrachord]

I'm jealous already.

And I miss Vienna to the point of visceral grief.

The modern conductor who most resembles Kleiber in performance and technique is, IMO, Andris Nelsons. I've seen this dynamic young conductor many times on the podium and I'm struck by the similarity to the great Kleiber. There's a fabulous performance of the Dvorak #9 with the Bavarian Radio symphony orchestra (which seems to have been deleted from U-Tube) which provides the evidence for this similarity very strongly.

[slarty]

Can you tell me where I can get my hands on the earlier version please? Anyone?

I have sent you a PM

[Tetrachord]

Here's the evidence that Nelsons is the next Kleiber. Go to circa 13'30". The thing about this broadcast is that its focus is mainly on the sections of the orchestra rather than the conductor, unlike the Kleiber performances, so it's hard to get a good idea!! But they are both from the same mould, IMO. The earlier reference to Nelsons and the Dvorak #9 was, I think, with the Munich Philharmonic. I can't seem to find it on U-Tube anymore. Anyway, here he is with the Concertgebouw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIGyCuZ9V-w

I've been in this superb concert venue, with this same work, orchestra and conductor!! And I've seen Nelsons in Vienna too. These was all part of my reward for being a lifetime musical TOTAL tragic.

This is the smallest taste of the Nelsons Dvorak #9 performance I was talking about - I'm darned if I know where the rest of it went!!! It's WONDERFUL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpPYUOC7FqM