Sun 5 June: Beethoven SQ, op 132

[french frank]

With BaL covering Beethoven's op 74 the day before, we have a feast of later-to-late Beethoven string quartets. This week Stephen Johnson explores the wonderful A minor quartet (the one that figures in Huxley's Point Counterpoint, no?).

"This is one of the so called "late" quartets of Beethoven, written after he had recovered from a debilitating illness. Beethoven used the quartet medium to grapple with some of his deepest feelings and sensibilities and the work is striking for the profundity of its expression and its novel and imaginative use of form. At the heart of the work lies one of the composers' most heart felt slow movements - an expression of an artist's thanks to God after recovering from illness."

The Wihan Quartet perform illustrations and a complete performance of the work.

[antongould]

Well I shall be listening - to me, at least, 131/132 are wonders, almost, without equal.

[Roehre]

Well I shall be listening - to me, at least, 131/132 are wonders, almost, without equal.

Applies to me too.

[EdgeleyRob]

Me also, especially op 131 'hairs on the back of the neck' music.

[Roehre]

Excellent programme I must say (as was last week’s Sibelius 4 btw)

Here I liked this format with the work explained through questions from the public.
Nearly all IMO main points regarding opus 132 were at least pointed at, i.a.:
-Thematic relations with 130 and 131
-The connection with the 9th symphony
-the personal, social and political circumstances in with Beethoven created the work

One major point wasn’t touched at all, one point mentioned as such might cause confusion.

I was reminded of the omitted point by Johnson’s F-major transcription of the Heiliger Dankgesang to show why the final chord seems to be discordant.
From this quartet (as well as from 130 and 131) not only sketches have survived, but complete sketch scores as well. There the music is essentially identical, but Beethoven’s part writing differs considerably (of one passage in 130 no less than twelve of these score sketches are extant).
From the slow mvt in 132 there also exist score sketches (up to 5 in some places) which could have been used to illustrate the differences between F-major and the Lydian mode. I think it would be a nice and very interesting gesture to use Beethoven’s own thoughts as well as the variants which he –in his mind- tried.
This would have illustrated too that being deaf did not stop him imagining the music to the slightest detail.

The point which might cause confusion: Johnson mentioned op.132 was the first quartet in which Beethoven left the 4-mvt standard and created a work in 5 mvts. Anybody knowing 130 (6mvts) and 131 (7mvts), but unaware of their chronology, immediately would questioning that statement of Johnson’s. He should have mentioned this, pointing as well to Beethoven’s original intentions.
Opus 132 was originally conceived as a 6 mvt structure: the Danza ala Tedesca from 130 was at first intended for 132 before it eventually was discarded there.

====

Is it a coincidence that coming week Brahms 4 is the subject of Discovering Music?
Beethoven contemplating whether the 9’s finale were a mistake, while Brahms effectively created an anti-finale in his 4th by ending it in (e-)minor at the end of a movement which doesn’t modulate otherwise than between e and E?

[Roehre]

Am I the only one who listened to this?

[Bryn]

No.

[french frank]

Am I the only one who listened to this?

(No, you weren't).

The point which might cause confusion: Johnson mentioned op.132 was the first quartet in which Beethoven left the 4-mvt standard and created a work in 5 mvts. Anybody knowing 130 (6mvts) and 131 (7mvts), but unaware of their chronology, immediately would questioning that statement of Johnson’s.

Yes, that did send me scuttling to Wikipedia ...

I think I would have appreciated something a bit more systematic. The questions did dart from one point to the next - all valid, but I lost any sense of the way the whole thing went together.

[Roehre]

I think I would have appreciated something a bit more systematic. The questions did dart from one point to the next - all valid, but I lost any sense of the way the whole thing went together.

Yes, there was not really a sense of direction, though we went through the piece more or less from beginning to end.
I am wondering what questions were put which haven't made it into the programme, as the ones we now heard basically covered nearly the whole field of interesting facts and interpretations concerning op.132.

[aeolium]

I didn't think the question and answer format made for a very coherent programme, though I agree that it was very interesting and informative. I liked his theory of a reversion to a more pessimistic ending, in the Allegro Appassionata finale of op 132, from the optimistic ending of the 9th symphony - as if LvB were having second thoughts about that optimism. On the other hand, I had thought the sketches for that op 132 finale theme had predated the composition of the op 125 finale (?)

[Roehre]

I liked his theory of a reversion to a more pessimistic ending, in the Allegro Appassionata finale of op 132, from the optimistic ending of the 9th symphony - as if LvB were having second thoughts about that optimism. On the other hand, I had thought the sketches for that op 132 finale theme had predated the composition of the op 125 finale (?)

The opus 132-finale sketches do predate the sketches for the choral finale. But Beethoven's thoughts about replacing the symphony's present finale by another one most definitely date from after completing 132, likely even from as late as the Summer of 1826, after the completion of the coherent group 132-130/133-131, but before 135 and finale 130.

[french frank]

I am wondering what questions were put which haven't made it into the programme, as the ones we now heard basically covered nearly the whole field of interesting facts and interpretations concerning op.132.

The questions put this week were much more interesting than the odd one or two that have been slipped into earlier programmes, certainly more searching than would have been possible to throw at an unprepared presenter. So, yes, presumably there were others suggested but not asked or asked and edited out.

All this said, if I could have my way , and FWIW, I think I'd prefer a series of shorter, more detailed programmes for a work like this, say 15 minutes (or, better still, 'as long as it takes') per movement. That would make a wonderful series to record for later study.

[aeolium]

I still think the best approach is for the expert presenter to deliver an illustrated lecture - essentially give his or her own view of the work - and then take questions from the audience. Even if the questions were selected to enable certain points to be illustrated, I think that's just overdoing interactivity for its own sake.

Returning to the question of a choice between 'optimistic' or 'pessimistic' endings for the 9th symphony (if LvB had gone with the A minor quartet finale theme for the 9th symphony finale), I don't think the evidence is there for LvB indulging in 'pessimistic', i.e. minor key endings. There aren't any in the symphonies and I am struggling to think of any in the quartets. Even in the predominantly minor-key finales of the C-minor op 18 no 4, F minor op 95 and C-sharp minor op 131 the ending is in the major (though ambiguously in the case of the op 131). The Allegro Appassionata of op 132, with its dark, lilting theme, also ends in the major. Indeed, one would hardly expect a tragic conclusion to a quartet containing a 'Heiliger Dankgesang' central movement. In this, LvB is philosophically as well as musically different from Brahms.

That said, I wish LvB had used an instrumental finale to the 9th and not explicitly repudiated the wonderful music in the first three movements.

[Roehre]

... I wish LvB had used an instrumental finale to the 9th and not explicitly repudiated the wonderful music in the first three movements.

That makes at least two of us

[Roehre]

.... if I could have my way , and FWIW, I think I'd prefer a series of shorter, more detailed programmes for a work like this, say 15 minutes (or, better still, 'as long as it takes') per movement. That would make a wonderful series to record for later study.

That would be much preferable IMO as well