Originally posted by NatBalance
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Serious Music - Definition
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Originally posted by Daniel View PostTo be fair you were asking why Rach 2 wasn't in a programme about The Symphony, the pieces you quote come with a slightly different outlook surely? I was offering possible reasons as to why I thought Rach 2 wouldn't be included in such a prog. (And to be honest I'm not sure it does do more than the Reich.)
I think this can be compared to a car journey. You can travel a great distance in a fairly decent car, see many places and have a great experience. You can also travel a short distance, like I did once in a gorgeous American car of the 1970s, only visited one place just 12 miles away, but the elegance of that ride in such a beautifull car gave me an experience that overshadows all other car journeys.
I could not begin to count how many times I have heard Racher's 2nd over the decades and still very far from fed up with it.
If I want a symphony that 'goes places' (not that I think Racher's 2nd doesn't go anywhere anyway) I will go for Holst's Choral Symphony and as I mentioned in another thread once, at one point in the 4th movement of that symphony it does too much. It builds up to a wonderfull sound of interweaving choral singing that has me enveloped in the world of the Elysean Fields of ancient times, and then just as soon as it has really got going it stops, and changes. NO NO NO! Know when to change.
Originally posted by Daniel View PostValue is a relatively subjective thing ….
I think Mahler can be brilliant but he hasn't really got hold of me yet. Maybe he will sometime in the future. Don't get me wrong, it's great stuff, been to a concert of his 8th symphony in the wonderfull setting of Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral and that wonderfull hymn like ending brought me to tears (as it does on recordings aswell), and of course the adagietto from his 5th symphony is wonderfull, but on the whole I find his music just very good, interesting, not outstanding.
Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostNot really. Although it's a lot more difficult than the Cage piece you mention, which is a piece with some very serious implications indeed.
Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostIt would have been his Birthday yesterday
BUT you weren't paying attention before, were you ?
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Originally posted by NatBalance View PostApparently so, but it goes way over my head. A 'performer' who does not perform, but instead listens to other performers performing - I think, repeat think I know the point he is trying to make, I just don't understand his way of making it.
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Originally posted by ahinton View PostIf there could be anything approaching a valid and credibly acceptable definition of the word "serious" as attached before that of "music" (and I remain to be convinced of such a possibility), might it be music that requires the unflagging concentration of the listener and which at the same time offers to the listener much on which to exercise his/her concentrative powers, irrespective of its "style"?
So they made it into a film because the audience would be consentrating more, trapped in a cinema.
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Originally posted by NatBalance View PostPerhaps, on the other hand this reminds me of the story behind the Naked Gun films
But of course no music requires any kind of attention or concentration, it doesn't have that coercive quality, thank heavens; and any music - in fact any sounds at all - can be given close attention and concentration; it's up to the listener, not the sounds, whether this is considered worthwhile or not. Music which seems to be telling me "now you have to concentrate hard!" I find a turnoff, I'll decide that for myself thank you very much.
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Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Postit's up to the listener, not the sounds, whether this is considered worthwhile or not.
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Originally posted by Padraig View PostI was trying to make the point that it was the composer's duty to be serious about the music
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I believe the background music to Peppa Pig or Thomas the Tank engine is/was composed by very serious intentions. How we hear the result is, I think, completely unrelated to how the music was composed.
Experimental summary of this thread.
Natty: Why is some music referred to as serious?
Mr GG: By whom?
Natty: By many people.
Mr GG: including you?
Natty: No. I don’t understand why […] is considered to be serious
Mr GG: Does that matter?
Natty: Yes, because I want to know why that is.
Mr GG: In that case, go and do a bit of reading and listening (here are some links to start with) and think about it. You may find something you didn’t know, for example, what people mean when they say serious music.Last edited by doversoul1; 07-09-16, 12:43.
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Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostThese are pretty damn serious to be sure.
But of course no music requires any kind of attention or concentration, it doesn't have that coercive quality, thank heavens; and any music - in fact any sounds at all - can be given close attention and concentration; it's up to the listener, not the sounds, whether this is considered worthwhile or not. Music which seems to be telling me "now you have to concentrate hard!" I find a turnoff, I'll decide that for myself thank you very much.
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Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post... in which case my point would be that it isn't in principle possible to hear whether the composer has fulfilled that "duty" or not. Was Satie serious about the theme of Vexations being repeated 840 times? We'll never know. Performers (and listeners) might choose to take it seriously, or they might view it as a joke. (Or both.)
I'm just sorry that I didn't stick with 'Classical' to avoid all this soul searching - I was happier then and I knew what I meant, and I knew that everybody else knew what I meant. Now I know nothing, but I still know what I mean. If you know what I mean.
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Originally posted by Padraig View PostSophisticated listeners might consider whether or not Satie was being serious in that example. Others might consider it was not worth the trouble to find out. What do you think?
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