Great Orchestral Bake Off

[Sir Velo]

Er..Challenge.

And, yes, she's in it.

[ahinton]

Er..Challenge.

And, yes, she's in it.

Is there anything that she isn't in these days?

[Nick Armstrong]

Is there anything that she isn't in these days?

Yes: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/naked-attraction

[ahinton]

Yes: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/naked-attraction

Well, that's a mercy! Let's hope it stays that way!

[oddoneout]

Yes: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/naked-attraction

Not for want of telepathic activity by many folks I suspect....
I did watch the 'challenge', expecting to have to turn it off toot sweet, but in fact KD was, for her, pretty low-level, and I enjoyed the programme. Possibly in part because amateur orchestral music making was an important, if relatively short-lived part of my early years, and this brought back some happy memories. I suspect the later episodes will get less appealing as all the usual 'ramp up the tension' devices are used and the personal 'journeys' start to be wheeled on.
In the light of all the doom, gloom and difficulties of the professional outfits it is perhaps important to be reminded of the great wealth of amateur music-making that still exists in this country - often having it's own struggles with funding, and attracting and maintaining adequate forces, but nonetheless providing much joyous and worthwhile opportunity to a great many people.

[french frank]

Good post, ooo (speaking as one who can no longer have a quick shufti on Catch Up).

On media 'personalities': once people start appearing, so their appearances will increase, exponentially, if they're seen as a safe bet; therefore not worth wasting time and effort looking any further.

Not for want of telepathic activity by many folks I suspect....
I did watch the 'challenge', expecting to have to turn it off toot sweet, but in fact KD was, for her, pretty low-level, and I enjoyed the programme. Possibly in part because amateur orchestral music making was an important, if relatively short-lived part of my early years, and this brought back some happy memories. I suspect the later episodes will get less appealing as all the usual 'ramp up the tension' devices are used and the personal 'journeys' start to be wheeled on.
In the light of all the doom, gloom and difficulties of the professional outfits it is perhaps important to be reminded of the great wealth of amateur music-making that still exists in this country - often having it's own struggles with funding, and attracting and maintaining adequate forces, but nonetheless providing much joyous and worthwhile opportunity to a great many people.

[Richard Tarleton]

On media 'personalities': once people start appearing, so their appearances will increase, exponentially, if they're seen as a safe bet; therefore not worth wasting time and effort looking any further.

About the first question our cycling gold-medallists were asked was "will you appear on Strictly?" - there's a sort of convergent evolution/cross/fertilisation dynamic whereby...exactly as you say. Last year's doubtless deserving Bake-off winner (I don't watch it, never have, not for a minute) was PR heaven for the Beeb and is now on a TV journey to her native Bangladesh....Of these orchestras, it will be interesting to see if they manage to choose a winner who ticks all the, er, PC boxes for the Beeb as well as the musical ones...though I'm sure Paul Daniel will have the last word

[Sir Velo]

Is there anything that she isn't in these days?

Say something for the girl, she's got a good agent...

Moving on..it seems to be obligatory these days to make programmes "showcasing" rank amateurs doing something very badly as somehow more inspiring than seeing exponents of the art ply their trade.

[makropulos]

Say something for the girl, she's got a good agent...

Moving on..it seems to be obligatory these days to make programmes "showcasing" rank amateurs doing something very badly as somehow more inspiring than seeing exponents of the art ply their trade.

That strikes me as an unduly sour response to this programme. I think Paul Daniel had it just right when he talked about the excitement that is evident in really committed amateur music-making - and I certainly heard some of that when I saw the repeat of this programme last night. They were not doing things "very badly" - nor were they pretending to be professionals. These are amateurs (or, as you insist on putting it, "rank amateurs") who do what they do for the love of it. And what they were doing was often extremely engaging. It was great to witness the improvement during the rehearsal period, and some of the people involved has interesting things to say about how much playing in an orchestra meant to them personally. I can't wait to see the next episode.

[ahinton]

Say something for the girl, she's got a good agent...

Surely that says at least as much about her agent as it does for her!...

[ahinton]

That strikes me as an unduly sour response to this programme. I think Paul Daniel had it just right when he talked about the excitement that is evident in really committed amateur music-making - and I certainly heard some of that when I saw the repeat of this programme last night. They were not doing things "very badly" - nor were they pretending to be professionals. These are amateurs (or, as you insist on putting it, "rank amateurs") who do what they do for the love of it. And what they were doing was often extremely engaging. It was great to witness the improvement during the rehearsal period, and some of the people involved has interesting things to say about how much playing in an orchestra meant to them personally. I can't wait to see the next episode.

I think that you have a fair point here, although the three programmes in which KD pitted herself against a professional piano trio really did largely fit into the kind of brief that Sir Velo bemoans; in a way, what came across to me in those was less a sense of KD's willingness to embarrass herself but one which suggested that she was somehow possessed of sufficient inviolable arrogance to persuaded her popularity was so great that she could get away with that largely unscathed. What could possibly have been the point of this self-indulgent "what Katie once did but not very well and can't do at all now" other than as yet another showcase for her, its emptily obvious publicity stunt nature notwithstanding? - unlike the programme that we're now discussing which at least, as you say, sought to try to expose some positive aspects of well-meaning musical amateurs.

But never mind the orchestral bit; KD's going to be on the next season of the real Bake Off, isn't she? (although I suspect that her agent has ruled out appearances on The Great British Sewing Bee on the grounds that he/she considers it to be beneath her - and it certainly wouldn't have me in stitches)...

[makropulos]

I think that you have a fair point here, although the three programmes in which KD pitted herself against a professional piano trio really did largely fit into the kind of brief that Sir Velo bemoans; in a way, what came across to me in those was less a sense of KD's willingness to embarrass herself but one which suggested that she was somehow possessed of sufficient inviolable arrogance to persuaded her popularity was so great that she could get away with that largely unscathed. What could possibly have been the point of this self-indulgent "what Katie once did but not very well and can't do at all now" other than as yet another showcase for her, its emptily obvious publicity stunt nature notwithstanding? - unlike the programme that we're now discussing which at least, as you say, sought to try to expose some positive aspects of well-meaning musical amateurs.

But never mind the orchestral bit; KD's going to be on the next season of the real Bake Off, isn't she? (although I suspect that her agent has ruled out appearances on The Great British Sewing Bee on the grounds that he/she considers it to be beneath her - and it certainly wouldn't have me in stitches)...

The good news with the orch programme was that we had much more of Paul Daniel and Chi-chi Nwanoku - and some of the orchestra members - than we did of KD, who was really just fronting the thing.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I watched it. For myself, participation is worthy - not everyone can be an accomplished professional, but non-professional music making surely promotes an environment where talented players can be appreciated/supported to become professionals.

So I work on different levels - eminent orchestras on one, and a number of others, local non-professional orchestras on another. Amusing to see KD occupying the Mel/Sue role (per Bake Off) .

On the limited insight offered, I'm not sure why the Yorkshire orchestra was the one to be eliminated, though. Next week, accompanying solo vocalists. A thought has just occurred to me - week 4, say - accompany a choir - up pops Gareth Malone!

[oddoneout]

I watched it. For myself, participation is worthy - not everyone can be an accomplished professional, but non-professional music making surely promotes an environment where talented players can be appreciated/supported to become professionals.

So I work on different levels - eminent orchestras on one, and a number of others, local non-professional orchestras on another. Amusing to see KD occupying the Mel/Sue role (per Bake Off) .
On the limited insight offered, I'm not sure why the Yorkshire orchestra was the one to be eliminated, though. Next week, accompanying solo vocalists. A thought has just occurred to me - week 4, say - accompany a choir - up pops Gareth Malone!

Amateur orchestras may contain once-professional musicians(as happens in amateur choirs as well).
I think part of the elimination process had to do with progress made within the time frame and potential to make further progress, and on that basis the Yorkshire orchestra lost out to the others possibly. I didn't notice as much of a 'before and after' effect with them, perhaps because they are already a pretty accomplished group. As with all such set-ups we are not privy to the full story.

[Once Was 4]

The 'Yorkshire Orchestra' included one Principal player who was once a member of one of the top regional orchestras; he is now retired but still loves to play. There were also several peripatetic instrumental teachers who are very good players indeed.