"Vier Letzte Lieder"

[Stanfordian]

Not to mention the classic Lisa della Casa account

Not quite for my list!

[Pulcinella]

Can you be more specific, Pulcinella? I thought her German (which I don't speak myself, so can't judge) was supposed to be pretty good? She's a fluent speaker....Here is that Proms performance....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVWrjDEVrHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIlPm-myghQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v1zlfWZXDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppoqUVlKkBU

Not much time for a complete assessment, but have just listened to/watched the first of these and then listened to Popp and Harper (in that order), and I stand by my comment (while accepting that it's a matter of taste) that Fleming performs these (or at least this first one) more as a Vocalise than with much articulation, for which Harper wins hands down.
I had forgotten how much I enjoyed her version and would urge others to hunt it out.
Thanks, Conchis, for the reminder.
These are songs I can only listen to occasionally (and usually when my partner is not around: they were a favourite of his father, so they have a special association for him), but I hope to reacquaint myself with them (and the score) when time permits.

[Richard Tarleton]

Not much time for a complete assessment, but have just listened to/watched the first of these and then listened to Popp and Harper (in that order), and I stand by my comment (while accepting that it's a matter of taste) that Fleming performs these (or at least this first one) more as a Vocalise than with much articulation, for which Harper wins hands down.
I had forgotten how much I enjoyed her version and would urge others to hunt it out.
Thanks, Conchis, for the reminder.
These are songs I can only listen to occasionally (and usually when my partner is not around: they were a favourite of his father, so they have a special association for him), but I hope to reacquaint myself with them (and the score) when time permits.

Bear in mind this was a Prom, with RF having to belt it out into the howling wilderness of the RAH ! Eshenbach her partner on her first studio recording, then Thielemann on her second....I watched the Lucerne/Abbado version which Tetrachord posted yesterday, yesterday, and could hear more than enough words (though not speaking German, I know a lot of German words, as a lieder/opera enthusiast )

PS an interesting review on Amazon prefers her first recording with Eschenbach (made before the Prom, I believe at a time when she hadn't performed it in public) to her Thielemann version, and explains why. I haven't heard the Thielemann.

[Pulcinella]

Bear in mind this was a Prom, with RF having to belt it out into the howling wilderness of the RAH ! Eshenbach her partner on her first studio recording, then Thielemann on her second....I watched the Lucerne/Abbado version which Tetrachord posted yesterday, yesterday, and could hear more than enough words (though not speaking German, I know a lot of German words, as a lieder/opera enthusiast )

Surely in the RAH all the more need for greater articulation, then?
Don't get me wrong; perhaps the composer shares the 'blame' for writing the wonderful soaring phrases that he does, but even so I hear more vowel sound changes in other versions than I did here.
Not a lieder fan (inoculated at birth, I fear), though I did pass O-level German (and studied a certain amount of scientific German as part of my PhD requirement); but orchestral songs are something else.

[Pianorak]

Not a lieder fan . . . but orchestral songs are something else.

Are you saying you don't like lieder if accompanied by piano only, but you do like them with full orchestra accompaniment?

[gurnemanz]

Are you saying you don't like lieder if accompanied by piano only, but you do like them with full orchestra accompaniment?

..... also piano accompanied songs in French, Russian, English, Czech etc or specifically German?

[Richard Tarleton]

Rob Cowan has just informed us that it is Gundula Janowitz's birthday today (b. 1937).
Silvery is the adjective that springs to my mind when I hear her glorious voice. Nice article here - her 4LS James Jolly's favourite, evidently.

Re Pulcinella's point - I'm not sure. I'd have thought precise diction would be sacrificed in the need to produce the volume - but what do I know. Perhaps a voice coach could adjudicate

[ahinton]

Surely in the RAH all the more need for greater articulation, then?
Don't get me wrong; perhaps the composer shares the 'blame' for writing the wonderful soaring phrases that he does

But Richard Strauss can hardly be "blamed" for inadequate acoustical conditions in places where his work is performed?! His gift for balancing voices against orchestral textures, sometimes with a large orchestra (such as the scores for Salome and Elektra), was remarkable and has often been remarked upon, so this kind of thing can hardly be his fault! Perhaps it calls to mind conductor Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt's wry comment about RAH...

[Pulcinella]

Are you saying you don't like lieder if accompanied by piano only, but you do like them with full orchestra accompaniment?

I guess I am.
My loss, I'm sure, but (many of them) are just not my 'period'.

..... also piano accompanied songs in French, Russian, English, Czech etc or specifically German?

Just German; I can cope with French art song, and with cycles such as those by Finzi.
Yes; just call me odd!

Winterreise and Schone Mullerin do nothing for me.

But Richard Strauss can hardly be "blamed" for inadequate acoustical conditions in places where his work is performed?! His gift for balancing voices against orchestral textures, sometimes with a large orchestra (such as the scores for Salome and Elektra), was remarkable and has often been remarked upon, so this kind of thing can hardly be his fault! Perhaps it calls to mind conductor Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt's wry comment about RAH...

Indeed.
And perhaps Anna Russell bears some 'blame' too, as I can't think of German without an element of 'schnickety schnack' associated with it!
And yes, too: of course the voice rides over the orchestra in Salome and Elektra, two of my other Strauss favourites (when Salome tells us she has kissed Johannes' mouth and Elektra's recognition of Orestes being moments of the purest ecstacy).

[Nick Armstrong]

Talk about stating the obvious Caliban! Why so pedantic!

The wording of your post suggested you were setting out the 8 'excellent' accounts, Stan... It seemed a trifle exclusive.

But if we are in agreement, so much the better

[Zucchini]

... it is Gundula Janowitz's birthday today (b. 1937). Silvery is the adjective that springs to my mind when I hear her glorious voice.

.. or the sound a wine glass makes when the rim's rubbed by a wet finger. Not a voice I liked at all (why on earth HVK made her sing Sieglinde against the mighty Jon Vickers is beyond me)

[Stanfordian]

The wording of your post suggested you were setting out the 8 'excellent' accounts, Stan... It seemed a trifle exclusive.

But if we are in agreement, so much the better

But you must know that I can only speak for myself; just like anyone else. I am not the arbiter of lists of the greatest recordings of the repertoire. If I was I would not have bought so many dud recordings over the years.

[Nick Armstrong]

But you must know that I can only speak for myself; just like anyone else. I am not the arbiter of lists of the greatest recordings of the repertoire. If I was I would not have bought so many dud recordings over the years.

[Richard Barrett]

(why on earth HVK made her sing Sieglinde against the mighty Jon Vickers is beyond me)

Interesting... to me she was a perfect Sieglinde and I've never really understood the attraction of Vickers' voice - I don't find him too much of a distraction as Siegmund but I find his Tristan unlistenable. Karajan of course would often move in mysterious ways.

[Richard Tarleton]

.. or the sound a wine glass makes when the rim's rubbed by a wet finger. Not a voice I liked at all (why on earth HVK made her sing Sieglinde against the mighty Jon Vickers is beyond me)

Which just goes to show (to state the bleedin' obvious) how different people hear things differently, just as they see things differently, everyone's world view unique to them, depending on, among a great many other things, the physiological/sensory equipment at their disposal....