"Vier Letzte Lieder"

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  • Pulcinella
    Host
    • Feb 2014
    • 10279

    #61
    Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
    Can you be more specific, Pulcinella? I thought her German (which I don't speak myself, so can't judge) was supposed to be pretty good? She's a fluent speaker....Here is that Proms performance....
    Renee Fleming sings the 1st of Strauss' Vier Letze Lieder.Proms, 2001.

    Renee Fleming sings the 2nd of Strauss' vier letzte lieder.Proms, 2001.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppoqUVlKkBU
    Thanks for the links; I may need to refresh my ever-failing memory.
    But I seem to remember that, though she has a lovely creamy voice, perhaps ideally suited to these songs, the sound she produces does not actually include the words!

    Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
    This is indeed a common criticism of her singing, but it must surely have been a conscious decision on her part to emphasise the instrument-like quality of her voice, don't you think? I mean I wouldn't want always to hear everything sung like that, but on the other hand it comes close to my ideal vocal sound in so many other ways.
    Conscious decision? Maybe.
    But (as you imply, with your mention of 'common criticism') I think the same could certainly be said of her Marschallin in Rosenkavalier (as indeed to some extent of Dame Kiri); glorious sounds, but at the expense of the words. Perhaps it doesn't matter what they're singing in such glorious music!

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    • Pianophile
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 53

      #62
      Originally posted by LHC View Post
      I saw Popp perform this with the LPO and Tennstedt at the Festival Hall. She was wonderful, and I remember her discreetly wiping a tear away as she listened to the orchestra end of the last song.
      Popp and Tennstedt is top of my list.
      My first recording was Kiri te Kanawa with Andrew Davies on vinyl followed by Jessye Norman/Masur. I heard Norman sing them live at the RFH with the Philharmonia under Sinopoli in the late 1980s. It was Norman I listened to for many years, but now it's Popp/Tennstedt who have the perfect balance of voice and orchestra.
      I'm sorry to say Schwarzkopf does absolutely nothing for me.

      Interesting that these songs always provoke so many posts. It seems they are on so many people's list of Desert Islands Discs.

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      • visualnickmos
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 3607

        #63
        Originally posted by Pianophile View Post
        Popp and Tennstedt is top of my list.
        My first recording was Kiri te Kanawa with Andrew Davies on vinyl followed by Jessye Norman/Masur. I heard Norman sing them live at the RFH with the Philharmonia under Sinopoli in the late 1980s. It was Norman I listened to for many years, but now it's Popp/Tennstedt who have the perfect balance of voice and orchestra.
        I'm sorry to say Schwarzkopf does absolutely nothing for me.
        Interesting that these songs always provoke so many posts. It seems they are on so many people's list of Desert Islands Discs.
        With you there 100%, pianophile. I have never liked her voice - not one bit!

        I have to say that - probably somewhat unfashionably - that I do like Barbara Hendricks with Wolfgang Sawallisch. Something very special about her voice, in that she seems to be able to get everything perfect, but without using all of her capacity. She uses exactly what is required, but you also feel there is a lot more where that came from, if needed... she makes it sound effortless and confident. Stunning version, if anyone knows it.... Please excuse my clumsy wording.

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        • Tetrachord
          Full Member
          • Apr 2016
          • 267

          #64
          The Tennstedt/Popp is indeed stunning - in fact, I prefer it to all those I've listened to so far. And in 'Spring' (at circa 1'00" on this version) I love the way the progression of the music makes it seem like it is wriggling out of something into the daylight!! Representing budding of Spring, I guess. But it's right there if you listen to it!! And, of course, the tempi are on the faster side on this recording. But the transparency in the orchestra - you can hear all the 'moving parts' distinctly.

          Direttore: Klaus Tennstedt - Soprano: Lucia Popp, 19820:00-3:49 Frühling (H.Hesse)3:50-9:06 September (H.Hesse)9:07-15:28 Beim Schlafengehen (H.Hesse)15:29-2...

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          • Tetrachord
            Full Member
            • Apr 2016
            • 267

            #65
            Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
            "We think caged birds sing, when indeed they cry." Webster, The White Devil act IV sc 5

            "...but there's no cage to him
            More than to the visionary his cell" (Ted Hughes, "The Jaguar")

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            • Tetrachord
              Full Member
              • Apr 2016
              • 267

              #66
              Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
              Don't you think though that her vibrato is a bit extreme?
              Not "extreme" exactly; but it is definitely a matter of taste, just as almost total lack of vibrato (Emma Kirkby) is not to my liking!!

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              • Eine Alpensinfonie
                Host
                • Nov 2010
                • 20542

                #67
                Popp has the advantage of EMI engineers exhibiting good taste, not ramming the microphone down the singer's throat. Kiri te Kanawa's recordings with Davis and Solti suffer from this - a pity as she has a great voice for this music.

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                • Exonian

                  #68
                  There are very few versions of this wonderful music I actively dislike and the majority of those cited are terrific in their own way. There are two others that I often listen to ; one is Anna Tomowa-Sintow with Karajan from 1985 on DG. Relatively brisk but quite a gentle, beguiling almost fragile sound and Karajan's orchestral sounds truly insightful.

                  The other is Jane Eaglen with the LSO under Donald Runnicles on CBS/Sony. Not the best accompaniment (and from such a great band) but a performance which is delightful for me. Many criticised Eaglen for being too young and naif for taking on such a work as though one needed greater maturity of life experiences - perhaps one does. But I like this disc very much especially coupled with the Wesendonk Lider and Berg's Seven Early Songs.

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                  • Stanfordian
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 9249

                    #69
                    I love the 'Four Last Songs' and these are the accounts I admire:

                    Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Szell/EMI,
                    Anja Harteros/Jansons/BR Klassik
                    Lucia Popp/Tennstedt/EMI
                    Jessye Norman/Masur/Philips,
                    Renée Fleming/Eschenbach/RCA Victor
                    Cheryl Studer/Sinipoli/Deutsche Grammophon
                    Renée Fleming/Thielemann/Decca
                    Kirsten Flagstad/Sebastian/Audite
                    Last edited by Stanfordian; 02-08-16, 08:57.

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                    • Richard Barrett
                      Guest
                      • Jan 2016
                      • 6259

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Tetrachord View Post
                      Not "extreme" exactly; but it is definitely a matter of taste, just as almost total lack of vibrato (Emma Kirkby) is not to my liking!!
                      I just like to hear the pitches she's supposed to be singing and not have to infer them from the accompaniment. It's not a question of vibrato/lack of vibrato, but a width of vibrato that obscures the music.

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                      • Tetrachord
                        Full Member
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 267

                        #71
                        This didn't bother me, any more than it bothers me in baroque arias!!

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                        • Ferretfancy
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 3487

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Stanfordian View Post
                          I love the Four Last Songs and there are number of excellent accounts:

                          Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Szell/EMI,
                          Anja Harteros/Jansons/BR Klassik
                          Lucia Popp/Tennstedt/EMI
                          Jessye Norman/Masur/Philips,
                          Renée Fleming/Eschenbach/RCA Victor
                          Cheryl Studer/Sinipoli/Deutsche Grammophon
                          Renée Fleming/Thielemann/Decca
                          Kirsten Flagstad/Sebastian/Audite
                          Not to mention the classic Lisa della Casa account

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                          • Nick Armstrong
                            Host
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 26350

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Stanfordian View Post
                            I love the Four Last Songs and there are number of excellent accounts
                            ...of which those you list are only a few
                            "...the isle is full of noises,
                            Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                            Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                            Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

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                            • Stanfordian
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 9249

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                              ...of which those you list are only a few
                              Talk about stating the obvious Caliban! Why so pedantic!
                              Last edited by Stanfordian; 02-08-16, 09:07.

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                              • gurnemanz
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 7309

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
                                Not to mention the classic Lisa della Casa account


                                I got the LP late 60s. Still a favourite.

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