"Where have the great composers gone?"

[ahinton]

As more George Lloyd than John Cage myself (well, more Mozart than John Cage, perhaps), I found the Eastburn article thought-provoking. But it seems that, wherever our own tastes lie, we all tend to focus in on the areas where we find most reward. As Eastburn said, what difference does 'greatness' make? It only becomes 'relevant' if anyone tries to impose their own tastes as the hallmark of greatness, in my view. Which (if correct ) immediately calls into question the theme of the original article.

Spot on.

As to George Lloyd (and no, I'm not departing from the topic!), one problem seems to be that, rather like Havergal Brian, his reputation is divided sharply between those who consider him to be on of England(!)'s greatest 20th century composers and those who reeaction to his work borders on contempt, with a paucty of more moderate views in between; I doubt that his situation today is much helped by his having written one work that's so very much finer than all of his others...

[edashtav]

Did you not mean meritorious?

Sorry, I' vet been away from the net organising music for Wedding, next week.

I must certainly did not mean meritorious, ahinton. I used meretricious in the sense of empty, flashy, dressed to kill like a whore, perhaps. Did I use the wrong term?

[Serial_Apologist]

Sorry, I' vet been away from the net organising music for Wedding, next week.

I must certainly did not mean meritorious, ahinton. I used meretricious in the sense of empty, flashy, dressed to kill like a whore, perhaps. Did I use the wrong term?

Whore is definitely the wrong term.

[french frank]

Quote from Ivan Hewett, last Friday, in the closely related article: "What’s to be done? A cynic might say; composers should write music people might actually want to hear. I think the situation needs a subtler response. Composers today aren’t naturally perverse; they want their music to be understood just as keenly as composers of the past. But they live in complex times. Musical language and social function can’t work together as they once did. A chasm has opened up between the language of music, which has raced ahead in its evolution, and public taste. This means that the pieces composers write will need repeated hearings, if their ways of thinking and feeling are to become clear."

[Serial_Apologist]

Quote from Ivan Hewett, last Friday, in the closely related article: "What’s to be done? A cynic might say; composers should write music people might actually want to hear. I think the situation needs a subtler response. Composers today aren’t naturally perverse; they want their music to be understood just as keenly as composers of the past. But they live in complex times. Musical language and social function can’t work together as they once did. A chasm has opened up between the language of music, which has raced ahead in its evolution, and public taste. This means that the pieces composers write will need repeated hearings, if their ways of thinking and feeling are to become clear."

And yet the public prestige of modern art has never been higher, to judge by the millions, well crowds, thronging Tate Modern every day.

[Bryn]

And yet the public prestige of modern art has never been higher, to judge by the millions, well crowds, thronging Tate Modern every day.

Much easier to do a second take/Tate with a piece of visual art then with an unrecorded musical work receiving but one performance. Hurrah for the iPlayer (when it's working properly).

[ahinton]

Sorry, I' vet been away from the net organising music for Wedding, next week.

I must certainly did not mean meritorious, ahinton. I used meretricious in the sense of empty, flashy, dressed to kill like a whore, perhaps. Did I use the wrong term?

No, you didn't; I just wasn't sure, so thanks for confirming.

[Richard Barrett]

I said at the outset I didn't think Clark's article was worth commenting on and I haven't changed my mind, but two points occurred to me:

(a) Susanna Eastburn's response article talks about composers "in a digital age" and illustrates this with a photo of someone working with turntables.

(b) Philip Clark sets himself up as a supporter of radicalism in contemporary music but then clearly subscribes to an anachronistic "Great Men (and the odd Great Woman)" theory of cultural history.

Surely the question should be "where is the great music?" rather than "where are the great composers?" - and the answer is there's at least as much of it as there's ever been, not all of which is being produced by people who would fall comfortably under the heading of "composer", much of which is moreover the result of collaboration of various kinds. Clark knows enough about the musical scene to know this, but obviously producing clickbait is more important than giving an accurate picture of things.

In other words: "great composers" is a dead subject, but some people (and some composers) don't seem yet to have grasped this.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In other words: "great composers" is a dead subject

Nah, it's not - as long as there are people who produce (in whatever way) "great Music" time and time again, there are automatically "great composers" - even if they deny this til they're blue in the face on internet discussion sites!

[Serial_Apologist]

Nah, it's not - as long as there are people who produce (in whatever way) "great Music" time and time again, there are automatically "great composers" - even if they deny this til they're blue in the face on internet discussion sites!

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine to whom you must be referring!

[MrGongGong]

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine to whom you must be referring!

So other than Brian ?

[ahinton]

So other than Brian ?

Ah, yes - he of the 32 symphonies...

[Serial_Apologist]

Ah, yes - he of the 32 sympohonies...

You mean 'Have-A-Go Brian'.

[EdgeleyRob]

Most of the great composers are on here,or on Lyrita IMO.
Who decided which composers are great ?
Why is LvB considered to be greater than Spohr,Tchaikovsky greater than Taneyev,RVW greater than Rubbra ?

[ahinton]

You mean 'Have-A-Go Brian'.

In both senses, yes; after, he did "have a go" rather often! (I also meant "symphonies", not "sympohonies" - still less "sym-phonies" as our occasionally resident Mr Grew might have it/them)...)