"Der Rosenkavalier"

[Tetrachord]

Today I've been watching the 1979 Bavarian State Opera production of "Der Rosenkavalier", conducted by Carlos Kleiber. I've seen excerpts of the opera many times but have never really given it my full attention. This is a dumb question but why are there 3 females in the roles of the chief protagonists in this opera, when only 2 are actually female characters? I can't seem to find an adequate explanation.

[Stanfordian]

Today I've been watching the 1979 Bavarian State Opera production of "Der Rosenkavalier", conducted by Carlos Kleiber. I've seen excerpts of the opera many times but have never really given it my full attention. This is a dumb question but why are there 3 females in the roles of the chief protagonists in this opera, when only 2 are actually female characters? I can't seem to find an adequate explanation.

Hello Tetrachord, The following article 'Another dimension: Helen Sherman as Aurelio in English Touring Opera’s 2013 production of The Siege of Calais. © Richard Hubert Smith' provides a good brief outline:

"The 20th century saw the tail end of another tradition, where a woman dressed in breeches and stockings added a layer of eroticism at a time when women rarely displayed their legs. This attitude can be perhaps detected in Hugo von Hoffmansthal’s letter to Richard Strauss in 1906 about the libretto to Der Rosenkavalier: ‘It contains two big parts, one for a baritone and another for a graceful girl dressed up as a man a la Farrar or Mary Garden.’ Hoffmansthal derived his inspiration from Mozart’s Le nozze di Figaro and from a French novel Les Amours du Chevalier de Faublas by Louvet de Couvray, whose hero has a feminine beauty and is often en travesti."

[Richard Tarleton]

I was just looking for that very quote, Stanfordian - you beat me to it . Ernest Newman places that first letter from Hofmannsthal to Strauss in February 1909. It reflects that H von H's original idea was that the principal roles were to be Ochs and Octavian...in time, of course, the true "big role" became the Princess. 'Strauss fell in love with the scenario at first sight of the text of Act 1, though he thought this might prove "a trifle too subtle for the general public", and he foresaw that for parts like these he would need first-rate actors; "the usual opera-singers wouldn't work at all" '.

Strauss jumped at the chance to write for three female voices....and he couldn't really have had the teenage Octavian sung by a tenor, could he, because then he would have been a man, and the whole dynamic of the story would have been different - a tenor dressed, and singing, as Mariandel - a travesti role the obvious solution

One of my three favourite operas by the way.

PS worth adding that Strauss/Hofmannsthal made the Composer in their next opera, Ariadne auf Naxos, a soprano role as well.

[Flosshilde]

I have a feeling that Strauss particularly liked the female voice, especially together - the trio at the end of Der Rosenkavalier must be one of the most wonderful pieces of music.

[slarty]

Also one of my favourite operas, especially conducted by Carlos Kleiber.

[Pulcinella]

A favourite here too.
That final trio is so sublime that it's worth enduring all the silly nonsense that goes on before it!

[Tetrachord]

Thanks so much, everybody!! I plead ignorance of Strauss operas except "Salome" - which I adore. When I used to wait for my train on the U4 Bahnsteig at Margaretengurtel in Vienna I'd regularly see posters there for Strauss operas, all written in German, and it was a way for me to test my nascent German. One such poster "Frau ohne Schatten" had me intrigued - 'woman without a shadow'. And "Ariadne auf Naxos" was another of Strauss's operas I'd see advertized. Another I remember was "Aus dem Totenhaus", composer forgotten.

Regularly pinching myself in disbelief that I was in Vienna, I wasn't always successful in getting tickets to these fabulous operas - but sometimes they were projected outside the Staatsoper, Live am Platz. THAT was a treat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-rlrmXCWmM

So, the women in the men's parts...surely this is what happened with counter-tenors being replaced by Altos in modern performances of baroque operas. This is how I remember "Alcina" at Wiener Staatsoper - two beautiful women in the leading roles. How very progressive!!!!!

And Kleiber's "Rosenkavalier" - simply magnificent.

[umslopogaas]

Aus dem Totenhaus. I think that would have been From The House Of The Dead, by Leos Janacek: Aus Einem Totenhaus in my recording.

[Tetrachord]

Aus dem Totenhaus. I think that would have been From The House Of The Dead, by Leos Janacek: Aus Einem Totenhaus in my recording.

Yes, that's the one: I must have used the wrong article (dem) and apparently it should have been "Einem" - I always thought "dem" was dative case for "the", and Einem dative case for "a or an". Now I'm confused...!!!

[Pulcinella]

Yes, that's the one: I must have used the wrong article (dem) and apparently it should have been "Einem" - I always thought "dem" was dative case for "the", and Einem dative case for "a or an". Now I'm confused...!!!

Don't be!
Articles are often lost or changed in translation.
Der Tod in Venedig became Death in Venice (not THE Death in Venice), and A room with a view is simply Camera con vista in Italian, I think! Can't think of an a/an/the transposition off the top of my head, though.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So, the women in the men's parts...surely this is what happened with counter-tenors being replaced by Altos in modern performances of baroque operas.

I thought they were replacing castrati in many instances.

[Flay]

Don't forget to book your tickets for Opera North's production this autumn:

https://www.operanorth.co.uk/productions/der-rosenkavalier

[Flosshilde]

It's the David McVicar production originally for Scottish Opera, & subsequently sold, after 4, or 5, outings to ENO, so it's been around a bit - but well worth seeing. Sumptuously staged (Octavien's entrance in Act 2 is to die for) & senstively produced/directed. No need for Regiemasks (tm)!

[Dave2002]

I thought they were replacing castrati in many instances.

Does the sadface denote your displeasure at the lack of castrati for modern performances?

[LeMartinPecheur]

This is a dumb question but why are there 3 females in the roles of the chief protagonists in this opera, when only 2 are actually female characters? I can't seem to find an adequate explanation.

I fully agree with all comments about RS's love of the female voice but isn't another factor his apparent loathing of operatic tenors? If Octavian isn't to be a woman he's pretty well got to be a romantic tenor, and how many great romantic tenor parts did RS write? He seems to have been keener on trying to kill his tenors!