BBC Northern Orchestra

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  • Eine Alpensinfonie
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 20570

    BBC Northern Orchestra

    In this month's Gramophone, there's an advertisement and an review of a Barbirolli Society set of Mahler 7 and Nielsen 5, played by the Hallé and BBC Northern Symphony Orchestras. As the recording dates from 1960, the latter orchestra did not actually exist, as it was known as the word "Symphony" hadn't been included in its name at the time.

    I knew the name change was later than this, as I used to attend BBC NO Friday Lunchtime Concerts in Manchester Town Hall, risking permanent damage to my lungs as I choked on the orchestra's tobacco smoke during the interval for the One o'clock News. Being a patriotic Northerner at the time, I was pleased that the name was upgraded, and even more pleased when it became the BBC Philharmonic.

    Before gloating smugly about my superior knowledge, I tried a search engine to see what information could be gathered. The only history I could find was on Wikipedia, which is often OK on this kind of thing. Not so here:-

    The 2ZY Orchestra was formed in 1922 for a Manchester radio station of the same name. It gave the first broadcast performances of many famous English works, including Elgar's Dream of Gerontius and Enigma Variations and Holst's The Planets. The orchestra was part-funded by the British Broadcasting Company (precursor of the BBC), and renamed the Northern Wireless Orchestra in 1926.

    When the BBC Symphony Orchestra was established in London in 1930, the new Corporation cut its regional orchestras' funding. The Northern Wireless Orchestra was downsized to just nine players, and renamed the Northern Studio Orchestra.

    Three years later, however, the BBC reversed its decision and maintained a full orchestra again - this time called the BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra.


    This sounds very authoritative, but simply isn't true, with an error of at least 30 years. I managed to discover that it was still the BBC NO in early 1963, but I'm hoping for further information from some knowledgeable forumite. The BBC Scottish became a Symphony orchestra in that year, and I think the Northern Orchestra changed at the same time.
  • subcontrabass
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 2780

    #2
    A quick seach through Radio Times listings shows it as still BBC Northern Orchestra on January 7th 1967 and as BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra on February 4th 1967. The latter entry has a note giving the date of the change of name as January 21st 1967.

    Comment

    • HighlandDougie
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 3093

      #3
      I'm not sure if the Asa Briggs BBC History would shed any more light on when the BBC NO became the BBC NSO but definitely as EA remembers, post-1960. The BBC Scottish Orchestra became the BBC SSO in - I think - 1967 so I would guess that Manchester might have preceded it in, say, 1966?

      Cross-posted with the above so not far off

      Comment

      • cloughie
        Full Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 22128

        #4
        It probably shouldn't but it always annoys me when I see the new name of an orchestra applied to older recordings - the RCO and CAO is a good example as is the RSNO and SNO. Retaining the original helps dating recordings.

        Comment

        • Once Was 4
          Full Member
          • Jul 2011
          • 312

          #5
          As a student in Manchester I was taught by one of the orchestra's horn players between 1968 and 1970 and I seem to remember that the addition of 'symphony' to the name was during that period.

          The history of the orchestra is very much connected to the history of the Halle Orchestra as both were part time ensembles, sharing the same players, up to the arrival of (Sir) John Barbirolli early in WW2. When it was decided to put both on a full-time basis the players had to choose which to go into and the Halle were rather shocked when most chose the BBC. Sir John's efforts to create a new orchestra are well documented and he used to tell many an amusing story. I knew several people involved as a student and young professional (most are now gone for good). One often told by the late Ida Carroll O.B.E. (and which I was told to me with tears of mirth when I gave her and some others a lift in my car to a gig in Warrington) regarded her first 'out of town' gig when she joined the Halle as a bass player. She got on the train at Manchester Central station and saw a little man who looked sad, lonely and hungry sitting in a corner so she offered him her sandwiches. Of course it was Sir John. Later they rehearsed Dvorak's 'New World' symphony and the basses were struggling with the chords at the end of the slow movement. At the break Sir John went over to Miss Carroll and said "just play whichever note that you find easiest!

          Comment

          • Petrushka
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 12260

            #6
            Originally posted by cloughie View Post
            It probably shouldn't but it always annoys me when I see the new name of an orchestra applied to older recordings - the RCO and CAO is a good example as is the RSNO and SNO. Retaining the original helps dating recordings.
            You are not alone as t annoys me as well! Those with eagle eyes will spot that in my frequent playings of the RCO/COA as listed on the 'What are You Listening to Now?' thread, I stick pedantically to the correct name at the time of the recording. EMI/Warner have always been scrupulous in getting the Philharmonia/New Philharmona/Philharmonia nomenclature absolutely correct in dating recordings.

            The 1967 date of change for the BBC Northern and Scottish makes sense anyway as that is when the new naming of the BBC radio stations came into being.
            "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

            Comment

            • Eine Alpensinfonie
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 20570

              #7
              Originally posted by subcontrabass View Post
              A quick seach through Radio Times listings shows it as still BBC Northern Orchestra on January 7th 1967 and as BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra on February 4th 1967. The latter entry has a note giving the date of the change of name as January 21st 1967.



              Thank you.

              Comment

              • subcontrabass
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 2780

                #8
                Wikipedia page now corrected.

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                • Eine Alpensinfonie
                  Host
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 20570

                  #9
                  Originally posted by subcontrabass View Post
                  Wikipedia page now corrected.
                  By you?

                  Brilliant.

                  Comment

                  • Eine Alpensinfonie
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 20570

                    #10
                    I like the BBC Enharmonic joke.

                    Comment

                    • Tony Halstead
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 1717

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                      You are not alone as t annoys me as well! Those with eagle eyes will spot that in my frequent playings of the RCO/COA as listed on the 'What are You Listening to Now?' thread, I stick pedantically to the correct name at the time of the recording. EMI/Warner have always been scrupulous in getting the Philharmonia/New Philharmona/Philharmonia nomenclature absolutely correct in dating recordings.

                      The 1967 date of change for the BBC Northern and Scottish makes sense anyway as that is when the new naming of the BBC radio stations came into being.
                      I'm not so sure.... when I joined the 'BBC Scottish' in the Autumn of 1966, it was already called the 'BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra'.

                      Comment

                      • subcontrabass
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 2780

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                        By you?

                        Brilliant.

                        Just a very simple edit.

                        Comment

                        • Eine Alpensinfonie
                          Host
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 20570

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tony View Post
                          I'm not so sure.... when I joined the 'BBC Scottish' in the Autumn of 1966, it was already called the 'BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra'.
                          In that case, the 1963 date for the BBC Scottish is probably correct.

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