Basso Continuo

[Tetrachord]

I'm preparing a 2 hour lecture for 18th August (for our music appreciation group) called "Figured Bass: The Art of continuo and Improvisational Performance Practice circa 1600-1750". I need to have my head examined for volunteering such a subject!! I've forgotten most of what I learned at university on this subject and my research is straightforward regarding the history of continuo. What I now need is to know and understand is the extent to which Bach and Handel used this convention and how much they actually wrote out themselves of the bass parts and why they chose to do this. Any help, specific references etc. would be appreciated, as I don't have time to read books on both composers.

Also, can somebody recommend some good recordings which show the differences in approach to the realization of the figured bass with some modern practitioners? I know there's a difference in style and approach between, say, the late Christopher Hogwood and Ton Koopman.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to use power point to actually show the continuo section in individual works but my technological skills are rather lame. Something to do with my date of birth, I believe!!!!

[Richard Barrett]

I would love to spend a day sorting you out some stuff, Tetrachord, but unfortunately I don't have one at my disposal. I don't really know what you mean about Bach and Handel. They of course wrote out their bass parts as completely as anyone else in the period in question, with figures as necessary.

You might take a look around Youtube at the various clips there which show the score as the music is played.

[Tetrachord]

I would love to spend a day sorting you out some stuff, Tetrachord, but unfortunately I don't have one at my disposal. I don't really know what you mean about Bach and Handel. They of course wrote out their bass parts as completely as anyone else in the period in question, with figures as necessary.

You might take a look around Youtube at the various clips there which show the score as the music is played.

Thanks for your comments; yes I've had a look at U-Tube and it would be ideal for power point...alas, however, my skills in saving to hard drive and then using for power point...well, the less said the better.

What I mean by Bach and Handel is that I get the impression they (well, Bach at least) wrote our more of the bass line than the bare bones of figuration. That's my general idea. It needs more investigation and fleshing out. I'd love to find some baroque recordings and compare a more fussy realization of figured bass with a more austere one. If anyone knows such a recording or recordings please help.

Cheers everyone!

[Richard Barrett]

What I mean by Bach and Handel is that I get the impression they (well, Bach at least) wrote our more of the bass line than the bare bones of figuration.

Bach's basslines are more complex and motivic than those of most of his contemporaries. He didn't write out more, there just was more. This would naturally involve more figures; Vivaldi on the other hand didn't bother to the same extent with figures because it was much more obvious what the harmonic implications of the bassline were.

[Serial_Apologist]

Bach's basslines are more complex and motivic than those of most of his contemporaries. He didn't write out more, there just was more. This would naturally involve more figures; Vivaldi on the other hand didn't bother to the same extent with figures because it was much more obvious what the harmonic implications of the bassline were.

That's interesting - didn't know that. When I led my school's chapel choir I never bothered reading the hymn scores in order to sing the bass parts; I just improvised them, and my ear proved sufficient to accord mine with the official versions!

No wonder I soon got interested in less predictable musics!

[Pulcinella]

Tetrachord

I know you say you don't have time to read books on the subject, but a quick Google (actually using the two words fussy continuo!) threw this up:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NcKzfcexYHEC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=fussy+continuo&source=bl&ots=CYMNb7xj_X&sig=NjaS501uWfBzkw2aZfoKG5VdeMA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjl6si4-qTNAhVMF8AKHVm7B9kQ6AEIJjAD#v=onepage&q=fussy%20continuo&f=false

From the contents list, the appendix seems to have some sample realisations, which might show the sort of thing you are looking for. No idea how easy it will be for you to get your hands on a copy though.

[Tetrachord]

Thanks to the two people who've made excellent suggestions, particularly the one about finding the music on U-Tube to go with some baroque pieces. This is the only part which has stumped me, apart from recordings of individual continuists - like the earlier mentioned Koopman and Hogwood - and their different approaches to realization. Maybe I can even find the answer to this on the 'net!

Next year's program for my music appreciation will be easier; Carlos Kleiber for one and Richard Strauss for the other!! Phew!

[MickyD]

Tetrachord - would this lecture by Christopher Hogwood be of any use? I don't know if figured bass is mentioned, but Hogwood's lectures are always fascinating. There are many more of his given at Gresham College available on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww1jQm7LStw&index=7&list=PLvwOc34JZ4K9RNFyMaAWR1fwPg4MAVcSB

[Richard Tarleton]

I learn something every day on this forum. As a total non-scholar and amateur plucker your query set me off on a spot of googling, and I found that Nigel North, one of the four or five top lute, archlute and theorbo players in the world, has written a book on this very subject - North, Nigel (1987). Continuo playing on the Lute, Archlute and Theorbo: a Comprehensive Guide for Performers. Indiana University Press. ISBN 0-253-31415-1 As it says in his Wiki entry, He is internationally recognized as the foremost authority on basso continuo for plucked instruments, and has written the standard modern textbook on continuo playing on the lute and related instruments
Here's a review by James Tyler,

Part two of the book is an extremely clear explanation of the system of
17th- and 18th-century figured bass which can be used by all players, not
merely lutenists. North complements the basic information with a wealth
of detail concerning the continuo style, playing techniques and
performance practice of the time, completing the section with details and
tips on ornamentation.

Used copies on Amazon from about £26

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Next year's programme for my music appreciation will be easier; Carlos Kleiber for one and Richard Strauss for the other!! Phew!

Do you think those will be easier, or are you being ironic?

Re the basso continuo, there are those who advocate its use in post-1750 works, such as Haydn and Mozart symphonies. Personally I think their argument is weak, as the full harmonies are written out in the orchestral parts.

[Tetrachord]

Tetrachord - would this lecture by Christopher Hogwood be of any use? I don't know if figured bass is mentioned, but Hogwood's lectures are always fascinating. There are many more of his given at Gresham College available on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww1j...WR1fwPg4MAVcSB

Thanks so much; I'll take a look.

[Tetrachord]

Do you think those will be easier, or are you being ironic?

Re the basso continuo, there are those who advocate its use in post-1750 works, such as Haydn and Mozart symphonies. Personally I think their argument is weak, as the full harmonies are written out in the orchestral parts.

Yes, I do really think Kleiber and Strauss will be easier topics for music appreciation!!

Regarding continuo for Mozart and Haydn...you raise an interesting point. For example, in this performance of Mozart's Piano Concerto in D Minor Ronald Brautigam seems to be using the fortepiano as continuo (thought, for the life of me, I can't hear it!!) before playing the instrument beyond the tutti!! That raises a number of issues, and for this reason the topic generally is quite complex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAJbhB_QIsk

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Regarding continuo for Mozart and Haydn...you raise an interesting point. For example, in this performance of Mozart's Piano Concerto in D Minor Ronald Brautigam seems to be using the fortepiano as continuo (thought, for the life of me, I can't hear it!!) before playing the instrument beyond the tutti!! That raises a number of issues, and for this reason the topic generally is quite complex:

In Mozart's time, when there was no conductor, this might have helped to keep the orchestra together. But other than that, I can see no musical value.

And please forgive me for accidentally committing the Host's great sin of editing your post rather than replying with a quotation. (We have a few extra buttons to press, and sometime this happens in error. I have of course restored your post.)

[Tetrachord]

No problems!

This gives a better idea; you can actually see Brautigam playing the continuo chords!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs1bbTo4T8Q

[MickyD]

In the first recorded cycle of Mozart piano concertos with Malcolm Bilson and Gardiner, Bilson made a point of playing along with the orchestra - I remember attending various concerts in London in which he did so.