Zubin Mehta. An under-rated conductor?

[EdgeleyRob]

Perhaps he needed a stint with a London orchestra on his cv. He'd have been a good choice to follow FWM at the London Philharmonic.

Apart from Brahms I'm struggling to think of any recorded symphony cycles from Mehta. Decca looked elsewhere.

I'm slightly intrigued by the Beethoven Fifth and Sixth now.

Chikoffsky

[pastoralguy]

Perhaps he needed a stint with a London orchestra on his cv. He'd have been a good choice to follow FWM at the London Philharmonic.

Apart from Brahms I'm struggling to think of any recorded symphony cycles from Mehta. Decca looked elsewhere.

I'm slightly intrigued by the Beethoven Fifth and Sixth now.

The Decca box I'm listening to has a cycle of the Schubert and Tchaikovsky symphonies. They're first rate.

I'm seriously thinking of ordering the Beethoven 5 & 6.

[jayne lee wilson]

Viewing listings at Presto etc it appears that neither the Schoenberg nor Ives LAPO items are included in the new box, a pity as the Schoenberg works are especially well done - and very distinctive in their sound. There's a striking scale, warmth and immediacy to the late 60s Op.4, 9 and Op.31; you're in a late-Romantic soundworld even in the Variations (the sound-palette here would suit Mahler or Schmidt perfectly), where Mehta emphasises tonal beauty & soloistic colour slightly at the expense of dynamic attack early on, but makes up for it with spiky ebullience in Variation 8 and the finale - but still produces Pierrot-esque chambermusical delicacy just before the end. This approach goes even better in the 15-instrument Op.9, the silky-smooth HF, spacious presentation & warmth of the bass offsetting the tendency in many performances to overact the densely eventful counterpoint. Just occasionally I wondered if some of the LA players weren't feeling their way through in Op.31, but - it doesn't spoil your involvement in the individuality of the readings too much.

The LA Op.31 transfer features some odd clicks which, together with a couple of intrusive tape-edits, an almost stereotypically "analogue" character and the more-than-usually obvious background noise occasionally reminds one of a needle-drop. Still, it makes for psycho-acoustically atmospheric listening, if nothing else. The well planned (and superbly remastered) Double Decca contrasts the Romantic Mehta view with Dohnanyi's shoot-from-the-hip clearer-cut analytical Cleveland sound in Op.16, Op.8 and Erwartung. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schoenberg-...hoenberg+mehta The later DD including the fine, if rather string-laden & dynamically restricted, Ives 2 offers a similar LA/Cleveland contrast.



The DD Schoenberg recordings from this LP resonate with me as they were the first of this composer I ever had, from the local library. I recall borrowing & renewing it many times, and it was many months before I saw someone else's date stamp on the sleeve. How dare they borrow my precious LP!
I must have followed up some performance or mention of the composer on Radio 3, finding this and the 2VS 5-Design Mercury awaiting my discovery...

[ahinton]

Chikoffsky

Is Grewism allowed here these days?(!)...

[ahinton]

Viewing listings at Presto etc it appears that neither the Schoenberg nor Ives LAPO items are included in the new box, a pity as the Schoenberg works are especially well done - and very distinctive in their sound. There's a striking scale, warmth and immediacy to the late 60s Op.4, 9 and Op.31; you're in a late-Romantic soundworld even in the Variations (the sound-palette here would suit Mahler or Schmidt perfectly), where Mehta emphasises tonal beauty & soloistic colour slightly at the expense of dynamic attack early on, but makes up for it with spiky ebullience in Variation 8 and the finale - but still produces Pierrot-esque chambermusical delicacy just before the end. This approach goes even better in the 15-instrument Op.9, the silky-smooth HF, spacious presentation & warmth of the bass offsetting the tendency in many performances to overact the densely eventful counterpoint. Just occasionally I wondered if some of the LA players weren't feeling their way through in Op.31, but - it doesn't spoil your involvement in the individuality of the readings too much.

The LA Op.31 transfer features some odd clicks which, together with a couple of intrusive tape-edits, an almost stereotypically "analogue" character and the more-than-usually obvious background noise occasionally reminds one of a needle-drop. Still, it makes for psycho-acoustically atmospheric listening, if nothing else. The well planned (and superbly remastered) Double Decca contrasts the Romantic Mehta view with Dohnanyi's shoot-from-the-hip clearer-cut analytical Cleveland sound in Op.16, Op.8 and Erwartung. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schoenberg-...hoenberg+mehta The later DD including the fine, if rather string-laden & dynamically restricted, Ives 2 offers a similar LA/Cleveland contrast.



The DD Schoenberg recordings from this LP resonate with me as they were the first of this composer I ever had, from the local library. I recall borrowing & renewing it many times, and it was many months before I saw someone else's date stamp on the sleeve. How dare they borrow my precious LP!
I must have followed up some performance or mention of the composer on Radio 3, finding this and the 2VS 5-Design Mercury awaiting my discovery...

Well, if the above and the link aren't indications of must-haves, I don't quite know what would be! Many thanks for your typically informative and eloquent observations. It's welcome and gratifying to witness Mehta's rehabilitation, and the regard in which his work is held, in this thread.

[Sir Velo]

He was primarily a double bass player, wasn't he?

[Richard Tarleton]

He was primarily a double bass player, wasn't he?

Originally, at any rate - see here

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

He was primarily a double bass player, wasn't he?

Originally, at any rate - see here

Oh - I thought he had only learnt Bass in order to play in the Trout with his friends?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh - I thought he had only learnt Bass in order to play in the Trout with his friends?

Oops, no - I was sure that I had read that (in a bio of Barenboim) but no: after lessons in violin and piano, he learnt Double Bass at age 18 in order to join the student orchestra at the Vienna academy. Apologies.

[cloughie]

The Decca box I'm listening to has a cycle of the Schubert and Tchaikovsky symphonies. They're first rate.

I'm seriously thinking of ordering the Beethoven 5 & 6.

There's also a Schumann cycle. Do we expect too much of any conductor. Zubin Mehta has been conducting for the best part of sixty years. Would anyone be expected to be top of the pile for the whole of their career? The only others I can think of who are still alive are Haitink, Marriner, Previn. They have all had their ups and downs in fame and popularity. No doubt you Uncle Bernie fans will leap up and say he's always been wonderful - maybe but perhaps for many years maybe reliable rather than having a wow factor.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The only others I can think of who are still alive are Haitink, Marriner, Previn.

Ozawa, Levine, Muti, Barenboim, Tilson-Thomas, too.

[Tony Halstead]

Ozawa, Levine, Muti, Barenboim, Tilson-Thomas, too.

I think cloughie probably meant conductors in their 80s... I see that Ozawa is indeed now 80.

[cloughie]

Ozawa, Levine, Muti, Barenboim, Tilson-Thomas, too.

All been around a while maybe not quite as long as my examples, Barenboim as a conductor rather than soloist since very late sixties!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

All been around a while maybe not quite as long as my examples, Barenboim as a conductor rather than soloist since very late sixties!

Well, yes - not quite; Mehta started his career a couple of years before Barenboim, who has been active as a conductor since the late '50s - he had studied conducting with Swarowski at around the same time as Mehta and Abbado. His first regular appearances away from the piano (conducting Mozart Symphonies in the same concerts that he also performed the Piano Concertos) in 1966. Ozawa studied the craft at the end of the '50s, at around the same period as Mehta, and made his professional debut four years after him. Levine made his conducting debut in 1964 - again about four years after Mehta made his debut as a professional conductor. MTT was a little later, in 1968 (the year after Previn made his first appearances as a "Symphonic" conductor - as opposed to Hollywood orchestrator and jazz pianist).

[cloughie]

Well, yes - not quite; Mehta started his career a couple of years before Barenboim, who has been active as a conductor since the late '50s - he had studied conducting with Swarowski at around the same time as Mehta and Abbado. His first regular appearances away from the piano (conducting Mozart Symphonies in the same concerts that he also performed the Piano Concertos) in 1966. Ozawa studied the craft at the end of the '50s, at around the same period as Mehta, and made his professional debut four years after him. Levine made his conducting debut in 1964 - again about four years after Mehta made his debut as a professional conductor. MTT was a little later, in 1968 (the year after Previn made his first appearances as a "Symphonic" conductor - as opposed to Hollywood orchestrator and jazz pianist).

Whilst we may question the what and when, I guess we would both agree they've all made positive contributions to the music scene and I've added many recordings of all to my bulging shelves, and replaced many of their LPs with CDs over the years. This thread asks whether Mehta is underrated, the same could be asked about Ozawa.