Orchestral music that performers like

[Pulcinella]

Since this thread has reappeared...



... one of the composers harpists (and this one in particular) least like to play is Shostakovich. He almost invariably writes for two harps in his symphonies and they always play in unison (presumably to compensate for bad Soviet harps that didn't make much of a sound), with all the ensuing problems of intonation and getting the two instruments to sound like a single one.

Would that not imply that you could get by with ONE good strong well-tuned harp and solve the problem?

[Richard Barrett]

Would that not imply that you could get by with ONE good strong well-tuned harp and solve the problem?

Well you could, but that wouldn't be what the composer wrote...

[Pulcinella]

Well you could, but that wouldn't be what the composer wrote...

True.

And maybe what you get is exactly what the composer expected: I don't know the music well enough to think of places where the harp part matters/is prominent enough to notice. Could be interesting balance issues though, if western (non-Soviet) instruments really do produce a bigger sound.

[ahinton]

'Turandot'.

Which one (as if I didn't know!)...

[pastoralguy]

Which one (as if I didn't know!)...

Puccini's!

A wonderful piece to play.

[Hornspieler]

Yes - but I wouldn't be surprised to see as much disagreement amongst professional orchestral players who have to play what a conductor has chosen for them (chamber Musicians presumably have greater control over what they chose to perform) as there is amongst their listeners. (And a lot depending upon who the conductor is - referring to the Philaharmonia series Barbie mentions, I wonder how many of the players waiting with baited breath for Toscanini to conduct them in Brahms would have been as enthusiastic if it had been Walter Susskind on the podium.)

The Philharmonia did not enjoy Toscanini (and I was told that the feeling was mutual).

Walter Susskind produced some very fine recordings with the Philharmonia; (as did Alceo Galiera and von Karajan)
and IMHO, The New Philharmonia which re-formed after Walter Legge abandoned them, gave many good concerts - most of the players were the same) but to me, their performances were no more impressive than their neighbours, the LPO, LSO, RPO and the BBC Symphony orchestra.

Proms coming up soon. Let's hear a few comments from fellow members regarding:

A: Choice of Content.

B: Standard of performance

C: Quality of Presentation

HS

*feel free to exchange PMs at any time - I'm not going anywhere.

[Hornspieler]

Just going from things I've read I believe it's well nigh universal that string players dislike the monotonous rhythm of the last movement of the Schubert Great C Major as well as the long tremolos in Bruckner symphonies.

Finding out that they really like to play is more difficult to discover and must vary from player to player.

Spot on!

HS

[Hornspieler]

I'm not sure that players always feel the same about conductors as listeners and critics. I think I once heard Walter Susskind - can't remember what - but he was OK, and I think from what I recall the players liked him. OTOH it might have been another conductor, but whoever it was one of the players said he was a "sweetie".

Anyway, the original question was about music they like to play.

Walter's problem (and he was a very good friend of mine) was that he couldn't keep his hands off the ladies.

HS

[visualnickmos]

Well you could, but that wouldn't be what the composer wrote...

Quite so, because Shostakovich would have known that his music would be performed by many non-Soviet orchestras, which would have better harps! If I can put it like that.....

[Pulcinella]

Quite so, because Shostakovich would have known that his music would be performed by many non-Soviet orchestras, which would have better harps! If I can put it like that.....

Yes, another fair comment.
Sorry if my first response to Richard seemed a bit flippant; that was not the intention!

[visualnickmos]

Yes, another fair comment.
Sorry if my first response to Richard seemed a bit flippant; that was not the intention!

It didn't come across as at all flippant. Just another angle, that's all.

[Richard Barrett]

Shostakovich would have known that his music would be performed by many non-Soviet orchestras, which would have better harps!

You're right I think. Also, his harp parts tend not to be very prominent - there are a few isolated moments I remember from the Fourth but elsewhere he doesn't seem to have shown very much interest, not on the level of say Ravel or Bartók anyway. And of course players can very easily tell when a composer does or doesn't really engage with their instrument. Music can be challenging to play either because it's badly written for the instrument or because it's well written, and dealing with the latter kind of challenge is of course far more fulfilling for instrumentalists.

[Tetrachord]

This isn't a response directly from me but from my partner who is an orchestral professional so I guess it's valid enough. She says it's a combination of music you like to listen to on the one hand, and music which is rewarding to play on the other, challenging but not because of unidiomatic awkwardness, which in her case (from the point of view of the principal harp) would begin with Strauss, Mahler and Ravel. Bearing in mind of course that the Symphonie fantastique is the earliest work in general repertoire that she actually plays in at all, and many later composers such as Messiaen and works like Rite of Spring don't use it. The Berlioz by the way is not a favourite, on account of the harpists having to sit out the first movement then immediately play a highly exposed passage at the beginning of the second, not knowing whether the instruments have stayed in tune. (Stravinsky said that harpists spend 90% of their time tuning and the other 10% playing out of tune actually I'm not really allowed to find that funny).

Well I certainly hope your partner doesn't become too bored, like this obviously-frustrated harpist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoTyDD0C93U

[BBMmk2]

Low brass musicians, certainly seem to always have loads of bars to count! So when it does come to us to play, for me, I make up for lost time! ;)

[Dave2002]

Low brass musicians, certainly seem to always have loads of bars to count! So when it does come to us to play, for me, I make up for lost time! ;)

I once sat behind a tuba player in Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique. In one passage I recall he only actually had two notes to play - repeatedly, but took great gulps of air between notes. Looked physically demanding, but not terribly interesting musically. Perhaps he might have started to feel light headed. Maybe that goes with the territory for tuba players. Whatever floats your boat!