Is Haydn the new Beethoven?

[teamsaint]

Many creative types seem, and I'd emphasise the seem, to have experience way beyond their years, in ways that seem rather uncanny.

But really, what that points to is a glimpse of understanding of a realisation that I/ we hadn't the ability ( or whatever) to make those insights at a particular age, or the resources to put them into a creative form.

[David-G]

These are all elements of the classical style of that period and one of the reasons this now bores me. But Haydn's music doesn't bore me as Mozart's does.

When I was 35 I thought Mozart was magnificent but I grew tired of his sound world; there wasn't enough angularity. It was, well, anodyne, pretty; matter how fabulously crafted. I've always felt it was like that to avoid shock, to be consciously beautiful, but one can quickly weary of these things as the years go by and we stack life experience under out belts. And most musicians play Mozart on the piano as though it's about to break!!

That's my take anyway; plenty of people disagree with me. Mozart seldom appears in my CD collection these days. And you know what? I put that down to a man being only 35 when he composed his 'mature' works; you can hear that!! The late symphonies and a couple of the operas probably don't fit that category, as would some of the string quartets, but overall I'd say I don't hear life experience in the work (which, of course, isn't Mozart's fault). The tragedy of Mozart is that he didn't move into old age - then he would have been much more interesting, IMO. The strange thing is that Schubert was younger when he died and yet his music is mature way way beyond his years; I wonder if this is a function of him having written lieder to highly poetic texts? Schubert's larger piano sonatas were, of course, influenced by Beethoven so this could be one of the reasons for his 'maturity' of style.

I would suggest that your appreciating Mozart less than before does not mean that you now see the truth, which you had missed formerly; but just that your tastes have changed. I revere Mozart as much now as I did over 50 years ago when I was in my early teens. You imply that Mozart's "mature" works were not mature, because of his limited years when he died. I would counter that Mozart's understanding of and sympathy for humanity, as expressed in his operas, is unequalled by any other composer, despite his limited years. The operas are the centre and the essence of Mozart's work. Of course if he had moved into old age, his music might have gone in unexpected directions, and risen to even more sublime heights. I muse on what would have been Mozart's reaction to the phenomenon of Beethoven. We shall never know, and that is indeed a tragedy. But we cannot grieve for the works that he did not create, given the sublimity of those he did.

[David-G]

To return to Haydn. Sir Andras Schiff has been playing a programme of "Last Sonatas". I heard this in the Wimbledon Festival last November, and again in the Wigmore Hall recently. The programme consisted of the final sonatas by Haydn, Beethoven, Mozart and Schubert. Despite my love of Mozart, it has to be said that his last piano sonata is not a towering work, and did not quite belong in the company of the other three. But the point I wish to make is this - that these concerts showed plainly how magnificent is Haydn's final sonata (no. 62 in E flat). It made a fine companion for the Beethoven Op. 111 and Schubert D960, which of course are both towering works.

[Tetrachord]

Yes, indeed sir, my tastes have changed. I prefer the angular and unexpected in my music these days; I want to be surprised and thrilled. Mozart just doesn't do that for me. But you quite rightly identify the tragedy of Mozart's short life.

Beethoven had 20 more years than Mozart and, boy, didn't it show!!!

[Tetrachord]

Absolutely agree with you. I just love Haydn so much more these days!! I presented a 2.5 hour lecture on Haydn's music 3 years ago and learned so much more through researching this composer and his works for Music Appreciation. Though that course title sounds trite, our 2 conveners are retired music academics/musicians and I have music training myself - so we do extensive research for our audiences.