Is Haydn the new Beethoven?

[Richard Barrett]

I'm not sure that Haydn changed the face of music like Beethoven did

Nor did he change the face of music like Schoenberg did! He changed the face of music like Haydn did.

[Serial_Apologist]

Nor did he change the face of music like Schoenberg did! He changed the face of music like Haydn did.

Haydn seek.

[Richard Barrett]

if you're using length as a criterion, then yes - Haydn's Symphonies are of lesser greatness than Beethoven's.

Never mind the quality...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSYVybCi0Mo

[jean]

Nor did he change the face of music like Schoenberg did! He changed the face of music like Haydn did.

But the orriginal wasn't, as you quote it,

I'm not sure that Haydn changed the face of music like Beethoven did

but

I'm not sure that Haydn changed the face of music like Beethoven did Beethoven.

which seems to mean something different.

[Richard Barrett]

which seems to mean something different.

I assumed it was a mistake because it wasn't at all clear what it was supposed to mean in that form.

[ahinton]

Never mind the quality...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSYVybCi0Mo

How do you find them?! "LONGEST SYMPHONY EVER COMPOSED!!!!", indeed; not only is it not the longest such work (as respondents have pointed out) but if this is a "symphony" in any of the senses in which that term has ever been used then I'm a retired Albanian bus driver. Are you by chance aware of the true identity of the perpetrator?

Symphonies can be all sorts of things, I suppose, but one thing that they can be to some is an obsession, given that at least 411 of them have been composed by two living composers between them, each in his 70s and each having to his credit (if that's the correct word) more symphonies than Haydn - phew! - back on topic!...

[MickyD]

I have no musical education or ability to play an instrument of any sort whatsoever. I am just a humble music lover who knows what he likes. And for me, whenever I need to listen to music which is going to lift my spirits and make me feel that all is right with the world, then I turn to Haydn more than any other composer.

[Alison]

The Seasons LSO/Rattle shortly to commence on Sky.

[David-G]

The Seasons LSO/Rattle shortly to commence on Sky.

It's very fine. I encourage anyone with Sky to watch.

[Alison]

It's very fine. I encourage anyone with Sky to watch.

pressed the record button as well in that case

[Demetrius]

Symphonies can be all sorts of things, I suppose, but one thing that they can be to some is an obsession, given that at least 411 of them have been composed by two living composers between them, each in his 70s and each having to his credit (if that's the correct word) more symphonies than Haydn - phew! - back on topic!...

Segerstam is at 296 (or was in April, might have reached 300 by now). So who's the other guy?

[ahinton]

Segerstam is at 296 (or was in April, might have reached 300 by now). So who's the other guy?

He reached 300 just recently and "the other guy" is Derek Bourgeois whose tally is currently 111 (or more).

[Tetrachord]

I love Haydn but I think he may get sidelined a bit by programmers and a broader listening public, partly because his music/melodies don't seem to be headline grabbing in the way that those of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven can be*, and partly perhaps because one senses in his music a less assertive, less demanding aspect to his psyche.

Although to my ears his music overflows with melody/wit/rhythm/compassion etc, I wonder if there's something in its nature that doesn't insist one listens in quite the way that the others do. If Haydn's played correctly but without sensitivity, would its treasures be perhaps more buried than those of Bach, Mozart or Beethoven played similarly, the latter still communicating enough of themselves to stand out somehow? Subjective and lumpish generalisations, but just wondering about a possible connection between the music and its reception.

I remember seeing an Andras Schiff recital in a school gym in Amersham somewhere in the mid 70's, when he played Haydn's G major sonata (Hob XVI :40) and feeling I had never heard such a perfect thing.

*(There is Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, but that seems a slightly different case.)

I wouldn't call Bach's melodies "headline grabbing".

[Richard Barrett]

I wouldn't call Bach's melodies "headline grabbing".

Nor me... isn't it rather simplistic to assume that memorability inheres principally in "melodies"? - because that would exclude not only Haydn (though arguably not) but also much 20th-21st century music, not to mention most pre-1700 music and a great deal of music from outside the European tradition. It could be, though, that Haydn's music indeed proposes closer and more precise attention than that of some more "assertive" composers. This to me is one of its more attractive characteristics.

[Daniel]

I wouldn't call Bach's melodies "headline grabbing".

Tetrachord and Richard, a late night fly-by answer, but as far as 'headline grabbing melodies' go, I was thinking of things like Air on a G string, Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring, C major prelude from Well-Tempered Clavier Bk 1, the Cello Suite No.1 Prelude, etc. These are pieces that acquaintances of mine who aren't that interested in classical music are familiar with. I couldn't think of any examples of Haydn that fit that bill, apart from the uber alles mentioned (and now I think about it maybe the Surprise Symphony, 2nd movt theme ).
It was only really casual speculation, but it wasn't just about melody. I was thinking of gravitational pull of the music more broadly, upon the classical-going public consciousness (and perhaps more generally). Bach in that sense seems to exert a stronger attraction than Haydn.

Though I suppose my main wonder was if it was sth in Haydn's nature that permeated the music, that caused him to be less in the spotlight than the others. Less of a desire to be there? But as I say, it was just speculation and I guess pretty simplistically so.