Imminent demise of the European Union Youth Orchestra..

[Richard Barrett]

BUT I do think it's important to counter the idea that somehow we don't benefit form EU cultural programmes

I don't know who was saying that but it certainly wasn't me!

[ahinton]

The issue here is really the ubiquitous neoliberal strategy to reduce funding for arts and culture with more or less arbitrary criteria drawn up in order necessarily to exclude a certain proportion of applicants. This is true of the EU as a whole, of most of its member countries, of Australia (whose arts sector just experienced yet another bloodbath at the hands of the federal government), of other regions as well no doubt, and has been gaining ground for decades. Grant application skills have become more important than any artistic ones. If a campaign to keep the EUYO open is successful without changing such core policies, all that will happen is that this particular bit of unfairness will get shifted onto someone else's shoulders. Meanwhile of course the rich get richer. Imagine what could be done with all those revenues that presently get siphoned off into tax havens with the connivance of governments. At the risk of seeming unduly repetitious, the problem here is capitalism, which is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that culture should be for everyone and not just a wealthy elite.

In accepting in principle all that you say here, the very fact that so many countries are slashing subsidies for arts organisations including orchestras (I'd read about the Australian situation which is undoubtedly one of the more heinous of these in recent times) suggests that this is by no means a mere EU-wide problem but a global one with probably very few exceptions in terms of where the sword might fall.

That culture is for all and not just for a wealthy élite should be obvious to all, especially as many of that wealthy élite (what a perversion of that word!) don't give a fig for most arts other, perhaps, then artworks that they can either stash away in vaults as part of their respective investment portfolios or have stuck on the walls of their fancy mansions in order to be able to show off their acquisitions to other privileged few who get to visit those places and see them.

That said, although Claudio Abbado was very much at the forefront of what was then ECYO at its outset, the orchestra's founders were Joy and Lionel Bryer, of whom the latter (who died 10 years ago) was a very successful and well-to-do society dentist and dental researcher in London and a property speculator. Whilst it's good to see private individuals founding and sponsoring such organisations as EUYO, it's also imperative that such activity encourages governments to do the same. Unfortunately, what you write about shifting burdens is very much to the point, with each such organisation having to fight its own corner and, until that changes and the value - economic, social and cultural - of such organisations duly recognised by governments, the present parlous situation will likely pertain.

I could not agree with you more about how funds illegally "siphoned off into tax havens with the connivance of governments" - or indeed in some cases actually siphoned off by the governments themselves - could otherwise be allocated for the benefit of society the world over, including the reprieve and subsequent subsidy of arts organisations that are running or might soon run into financial trouble. Where I don't see eye to eye with you (and only in this particular) is the laying of blame against capitalism alone for these woes; the acceptable future of capitalism is dependent upon the successful flushing out of illicit use of funds (including such siphonings off and money laundering), especially as, when governments connive in ordirectly involve themselves in such illicit financial activities, they do so with taxpayers' funds, since they have no other sources of funds of their own. Accordingly, I do not accept that "capitalism...is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that culture should be for everyone and not just a wealthy elite"; it's certain capitalists of the more corrupt kind who believe that - and some of those don't even care at all about the importance of culture for anyone, even including that wealthy élite.

[verismissimo]

EUYO is the finest youth orchestra that I ever heard. And the only really valuable cultural flowering of the EU! Its founder Claudio Abbado would be horrified and dismayed by the current situation.

To show support, follow the suggestions at:http://www.euyo.eu/about/saveeuyo/

And sign the online petition:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition..._EUYO/?aaDcLbb

Lots of interesting thinking hereabouts, but what the EUYO needs right now is YOUR SUPPORT!

[MrGongGong]

Lots of interesting thinking hereabouts, but what the EUYO needs right now is YOUR SUPPORT!

Indeed
BUT there's no point supporting it and voting to leave the EU (i'm not suggesting you are planning to do that)
What we need is more voices in favour of the other cultural projects that the EU funds AS WELL

[Richard Barrett]

there's no point supporting it and voting to leave the EU

Why?

[MrGongGong]

Why?

Vegan butcher ?

[Richard Barrett]

Vegan butcher ?

Is that supposed to be an answer???

[MrGongGong]

Is that supposed to be an answer???

What's the point of supporting something that one disagrees with?
I can't see how those who are totally opposed to the EU can be in favour of it spending money on funding an orchestra.

[Richard Barrett]

I can't see how those who are totally opposed to the EU can be in favour of it spending money on funding an orchestra.

I'm also totally opposed to the Cameron government and everything it represents, and that involves being opposed to its policy of cutting arts funding. Is that so hard to understand?

[MrGongGong]

I'm also totally opposed to the Cameron government and everything it represents, and that involves being opposed to its policy of cutting arts funding. Is that so hard to understand?

NO it's very simple
But there seems to be a bit of a contradiction in several folk i've come across who are outraged by the demise of the EUYO and at the same time are actively campaigning for the the UK to withdraw from the EU and disconnect itself totally from all of it's schemes and programmes.

[Richard Barrett]

there seems to be a bit of a contradiction in several folk i've come across who are outraged by the demise of the EUYO and at the same time are actively campaigning for the the UK to withdraw from the EU and disconnect itself totally from all of it's schemes and programmes.

Where is this contradiction exactly?

[MrGongGong]

Where is this contradiction exactly?

1: People who are fundamentally opposed to the EU and the idea that it has cultural significance (the "i'm not European i'm English")
2: The same people wanting the EU to spend money on an orchestra that celebrates the shared culture of Europe (whether you think it's a continent or not)

[Richard Barrett]

You can of course be fundamentally opposed to the EU while wishing to "celebrate the shared culture of Europe" (very few orchestras don't! whether in France or Japan or anywhere else) by any means necessary. Again, where is the contradiction?

[oddoneout]

1: People who are fundamentally opposed to the EU and the idea that it has cultural significance (the "i'm not European i'm English")
2: The same people wanting the EU to spend money on an orchestra that celebrates the shared culture of Europe (whether you think it's a continent or not)

I'm not convinced that the majority of those supporting Brexit consider the cultural side of things. The main concerns appear to be immigration and lack of control over laws etc. Surely one of the points about the arts is that they rise above nationality etc? Is it not possible to be in support of schemes which benefit, in this case, young musicians, even if one disagrees with the body that enables such schemes?

[MrGongGong]

. Surely one of the points about the arts is that they rise above nationality etc?

"Classical" music ?
Hummmmmm