Holst vocal music

[NatBalance]

I think that Holst is really underrated, thought by some to be a cold and clinical composer

I am puzzled by this. I believe he himself thought his music cold when he heard another composer's work (can't recall who's) but I don't find it so. I find the mystery of some of his music, and the old English countryside atmosphere of pieces like The Somerset Rhapsody very warm. His music generally does not have the warmth of romantic music such as Rachmaninov but warmth comes in many forms.

[Ferretfancy]

I completely agree with you about him being underrated (apart from the obvious piece, of course). When you say "the young Janet Baker's recording of the Ode to Death" - which recording is that? There are no soloists in the Ode to Death (a work of which I'm extremely fond) so I wonder if you mean something else (like the Choral Fantasia?)

Yes, Makropulos, it was a silly slip that happened because both works are on the same disc. They are both excellent.

One small anecdote -we were going to Snape to hear Holst's Choral Symphony, but when we drove into the Car Park we discovered that the hall had burnt down the night before!
I have been to the Maltings since but I haven't yet caught up with a live performance of the Symphony.

[Serial_Apologist]

I am puzzled by this. I believe he himself thought his music cold when he heard another composer's work (can't recall who's) but I don't find it so. I find the mystery of some of his music, and the old English countryside atmosphere of pieces like The Somerset Rhapsody very warm. His music generally does not have the warmth of romantic music such as Rachmaninov but warmth comes in many forms.

This is Imogen Holst, describing her father's emotions, 'closed in a grey isolation' as he sat through the premiere of the Humbert Wolfe songs in 1929, being thawed afterwards as he histened to Schubert's C major Quintet:

'And as he listened to it, he realised what he had lost, not only in his music but in his life. He could cling to his austerity. He could fill his days with kindliness and good humour. He could write music that was neither commonplace, unmeaning, nor tame. And he could grope after ideas that were colossal and mysterious. But he had missed the warmth of the Schubert Quintet.

'At the moment, it seemed as if this warmth might be the only thing worth having'.

(Gustav Holst, (1938) Holst, Imogen, Oxford University Press).

Many, myself included, see something of a return of that warmth in the last two of Holst's works - the Lyric Movement for viola and orchestra (which foreshadows Bartok's late, semi-posthumous Viola Concerto in so many places I have to ask myself was this coincidence?) and the astonishing, upbeat Scherzo from the projected symphony - another of those 'if only he'd completed it or left at least a partial score', like the slow movement for strings from Bridge's projected symphony.

[NatBalance]

Thanks very much - you put it very well and you've obviously been exploring some of the same (wonderful) pieces that I have, with the similar rewards. The second movement of the Choral Symphony is utterly marvellous music, isn't it? And for sheer exhilaration it's hard to beat "To Agni" from the Rig Veda Hymns - and it's successor in the "dance" section of the Hymn of Jesus. Have you come across the Ode to Death yet? If not, from what you say I am sure you'd love it!

Yes, I have heard Ode to Death and it is equally as brilliant, but that is one of my recordings on vinyl. How many of us still have cases full of vinyl and no working record player? I must get myself an up-to-date player. Oh yes, To Agni, wonderfully exciting. Holst's trade mark dance style. I love his dance style and also his 'procession theme' that haunts some of his music. You like certain pieces at different times and right now I am hypnotised by the piece that comes after To Agni, the Funeral Chant. It's just so beautifully entrancing.

I'm sorry about this next bit, but even though Holst is one of my favourite composers I have one complaint about him. He has a tendancy to get a good piece of music going, and then it stops, just as you are really getting into it and moving with the music, it changes to something else. For instance, the bit that really annoys me is in the last movement of his Choral Symphony, it starts soon after 44:00 here:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IliGLfkXL-4

(Goodness this recording is so quiet)

It gradually builds up, the female chorus comes in with some heavenly music at "Underneath large blue bells tented, Where the daisies are roses scented", at about 46:00 his trade mark procession comes in and he really gets a good thing going, we are really swinging in such a warm blanket of mythological loveliness, it's like dancing Bach, but then it stops …. we only get about 15 seconds and it stops. Talk about anti climax. That is just such a beautifull piece of music and it has such potential. If there's not enough words … well …. repeated them. It's criminal to halt a good piece of music just because of the text. Bach would never have stopped it there
:)

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Everytime I hear that bit I just so ache for it to keep going and elaborate.

How did it go on Friday? Was your audience enthusiastic?

[Pulcinella]

Yes indeed - and they're examples 6 and 7 in my talk :)
It's interesting that they are also contemporary with each other (even though the rest of Dona nobis pacem came 22 years later).

I didn't know that, but it probably explains why there is the provision in the score of DNP for the movement to be performed separately (a closing final bar instead of the segue; presumably the 'original' ending).

I too hope that your presentation went well. Must listen to the Choral Symphony again soon.

[NatBalance]

This is Imogen Holst, describing her father's emotions, 'closed in a grey isolation' as he sat through the premiere of the Humbert Wolfe songs in 1929, being thawed afterwards as he histened to Schubert's C major Quintet:

'And as he listened to it, he realised what he had lost, not only in his music but in his life. He could cling to his austerity. He could fill his days with kindliness and good humour. He could write music that was neither commonplace, unmeaning, nor tame. And he could grope after ideas that were colossal and mysterious. But he had missed the warmth of the Schubert Quintet.

'At the moment, it seemed as if this warmth might be the only thing worth having'.

(Gustav Holst, (1938) Holst, Imogen, Oxford University Press).

Many, myself included, see something of a return of that warmth in the last two of Holst's works - the Lyric Movement for viola and orchestra (which foreshadows Bartok's late, semi-posthumous Viola Concerto in so many places I have to ask myself was this coincidence?) and the astonishing, upbeat Scherzo from the projected symphony - another of those 'if only he'd completed it or left at least a partial score', like the slow movement for strings from Bridge's projected symphony.

Thanks for that Serial. I sometimes take a while to reply on forums but usually get there eventually. Yes, if only, especially another choral symphony. I have been puzzled by this warmth Holst thought his music lacked. Of course the Schubert has warmth, but it's warmth of a different nature. I find the way Holst uses the female chorus incredibly warm. He makes them sound like a heavenly choir, and it's difficult to get much warmer than that. I haven't found those last two works you mentioned particularly more warm but then we all hear things differently.