Seeing Music Performed

[MrGongGong]

I include that in "seeing music performed" as opposed to listening to it at home.

aaah

I almost thought you were about to get in a scrap with Prof Emmerson

[ahinton]

Forgive me if I'e gotten the wrong end of the stick here, but I do wonder if what's really meant by - and really important about - "seeing music performed" is not merely the visual thing but about "being present when it's performed".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Forgive me if I'e gotten the wrong end of the stick here, but I do wonder if what's really meant by - and really important about - "seeing music performed" is not merely the visual thing but about "being present when it's performed".

I think it is for me: watching a televised concert doesn't add much to a listening to a radio broadcast or to a recording (in fact, camera positions can get in the way of my enjoyment). I do get a lot of "information" from watching Musicians working - where such visuals are available/appropriate - but there's also the sheer physical presence of the sound - literally feeling the sound moving through me in the hall. The sort of loudspeakers - and the size of room - I have access to in a domestic setting don't create such a physical/acoustical sensation.

[Richard Barrett]

I almost thought you were about to get in a scrap with Prof Emmerson

If I did it wouldn't be for that reason.

[gradus]

Forgive me if I'e gotten the wrong end of the stick here, but I do wonder if what's really meant by - and really important about - "seeing music performed" is not merely the visual thing but about "being present when it's performed".

Another example of what I was getting at in the OP is seeing an organist playing the Bach F major toccata when the feet get going too (!) or an orchestra playing at full stretch in say the scherzo from Shostakovich 10. Visually engaging as well as musically exciting.

[Dave2002]

Another example of what I was getting at in the OP is seeing an organist playing the Bach F major toccata when the feet get going too (!) or an orchestra playing at full stretch in say the scherzo from Shostakovich 10. Visually engaging as well as musically exciting.

Sometimes the visual aspects can enhance appreciation, while other times not. I can think of a couple of performance of a Shostakovich piano concerto (plus trumpet) where concern that the pianist might actually fall off the piano stool added to the "enjoyment" - certainly those were very exciting.

However, I sometimes close my eyes at concerts, and that can make the experience much more vivid.

Live concerts are nearly always very much better than listening to recordings - though they are not always so convenient [travel to and from the concerts, uncomfortable seats, one might not be feeling well - various other factors - including distractions from other members of the audience]. The sound quality is mostly better, and one can't always be sure what is going to happen. I'm not sure that seeing the musicians is always essential. However, last week at the Barbican I was slightly surprised to notice the audible presence of a gong (without a visual cue) very early on in one piece, and was then able to confirm that by looking at the relevant section of the orchestra. I was also slightly surprised that my hearing is still good enough to be able to detect that. In a recording I would either not have noticed at all, or the recording engineers would have "spotlighted" the instrument, and made sure that I heard it. Generally the sound at a live venue is much more subtle, while also being vivid, and there is a very much greater sense of space.

Of course if a live performance is really not great or poor then attending a concert can be disappointing compared with listening to a very good CD - but most live performances beat the heck out of listening to recorded or broadcast music.

Some people seem to like live concerts simply for the social occasion, and to meet people, and I think there are even people who actually don't like music much who go to concerts for a social experience rather than a musical one.

[DracoM]

Seeing the physical / mental interaction of a string quartet or similar small ensemble always enlivens music for me.
Watching choirs / choruses / orchestras is very dull by comparison.

[ahinton]

Seeing the physical / mental interaction of a string quartet or similar small ensemble always enlivens music for me.
Watching choirs / choruses / orchestras is very dull by comparison.

Well, obviously the fewer performers there are at any given moment, the greater the likely concentration on each on the part of the listener attending the performance, which is just one reason why I thought to put forward the notion that the physical presence of the music being performed when one attends a live performance might be what makes itself felt at least as much if not more than the visual impact of the performers performing; the example of Xenakis' Terretektorh might be a case in point, as it's simply not possible to watch all the performers in it at any given moment because they're spread among the audience, yet that fact does nothing to lessen the impact that attending a performance will have over listening to a recording of it - the examples of Mahler's Eighth Symphony, Brian's Gothic Symphony, Schönberg's Gurrelieder et al are similar except that this is because of the sheer numbers of performers involved rather than the extent to which they're positioned in a line of listener vision.

[kea]

but there's also the sheer physical presence of the sound - literally feeling the sound moving through me in the hall.

I think this might be part of the reason I don't like live concerts (now I have to review one, RIP me): at this stage in my life, anything intensely body-focused is deeply unpleasant for me. I think I talked about this a bit on the live performances vs. recordings thread though. In live music one can't ignore the physical aspects—either the physical presence of sound or the physical energy of the performers with whom one is in fairly close quarters; also a sort of sympathetic experience of the performers' bodily sensations which seems to come mostly from a combination of (a) seeing them, (b) some kind of understanding of how the body uses the instrument to produce sound, (c) the actual sound produced.

I do enjoy live performances of acousmatic/electronic music, though seem to be very sensitive to high frequencies and loud dynamics which sometimes makes it a literally painful experience. Which may or may not have been what was meant by the composer, but even if so, I'd rather not have my pain be someone else's canvas.

[Richard Barrett]

In live music one can't ignore the physical aspects—either the physical presence of sound or the physical energy of the performers with whom one is in fairly close quarters; also a sort of sympathetic experience of the performers' bodily sensations

It's interesting that you should find this problematic. For me it's a primary reason/justification for making live music rather than exclusively acousmatic music - hearing the sinews so to speak.

[vinteuil]

... the sheer physical presence of the sound - literally feeling the sound moving through me in the hall. The sort of loudspeakers - and the size of room - I have access to in a domestic setting don't create such a physical/acoustical sensation.

... yes - that I do appreciate. I'm thinking pertick'lerly of organ recitals, where there is 'nothing to look at' - but the physical 'presence' of the sound is very different from what we can expect in our own homes.

[ahinton]

I think this might be part of the reason I don't like live concerts (now I have to review one, RIP me): at this stage in my life, anything intensely body-focused is deeply unpleasant for me. I think I talked about this a bit on the live performances vs. recordings thread though. In live music one can't ignore the physical aspects—either the physical presence of sound or the physical energy of the performers with whom one is in fairly close quarters; also a sort of sympathetic experience of the performers' bodily sensations which seems to come mostly from a combination of (a) seeing them, (b) some kind of understanding of how the body uses the instrument to produce sound, (c) the actual sound produced.

I can at least accept that what might on occason prove to be off-putting is when performers' actions when performing appear unduly demonstrative of something other than the music itself; there's one violinist and several pianists ("one egregius and notorious specimen in particular", as Sorabji once said, albeit in relation to professional music critics rather than performers - and no names mentioned, of course) that immediately come to mind whose stage antics I find to border on the unwatchable and which are more likely to detract from than enhance the effect of what they're playing.

Watching pianists such as Rachmaninoff or Medtner (which I'm nowhere near old enough to have done) or Cherkassky, Michelangeli, Stevenson or Ogdon (which I did) was inevitably "dull" because there was so little to watch, yet in a certain way that seemed to lend to watching them a curious fascination in that so much was coming from them without any obviously observable physical effort or perceived need somehow to try to "illustrate" the music by the visible physical movements of the performer - and to attend a performance by any of these could be the kind of experience during which one could almost hear a pin while it was dropping, so skilfully would each take full command of audience members' concentrative capacities.

[kea]

It's interesting that you should find this problematic. For me it's a primary reason/justification for making live music rather than exclusively acousmatic music - hearing the sinews so to speak.

I do greatly wish I didn't find it problematic, as so many people find live music so much more powerful and important as an experience (and I have myself on a few occasions when I was able to be sufficiently receptive), and also as I'd like to perform live myself, someday, for basically similar reasons.

(If I at some point do manage to accept/live with my body I imagine that a proper appreciation of music as bodily/kinaesthetic sensation would be one of the first things to develop.)

[BBMmk2]

No matter what genre the music is, there is nothing quite like a 'live' performance.

[ardcarp]

I'm thinking pertick'lerly of organ recitals, where there is 'nothing to look at'

No longer the anonymity of the organ loft! There is a trend for organ recitalists to have their corybantics relayed via CCTV to a Big Screen. Not sure I'm comfortable with it.....