Surround downloads

[Gweefry]

I'm not sure how many are into downloading rather than buying the physical discs, but a notable development from the BIS stable is the availability of their multichannel discs for download from the eClassical site.

The first off the blocks is a new Pulcinella (from, surprisingly, Masaaki Suzuki) and I understand that quite a chunk of their surround recordings are eventually going to be made available for download, apparently at the same price as stereo.

As a matter of curiosity, are there any other board members who, from choice, download rather than buy CD/SACDs?

[richardfinegold]

I'm not sure how many are into downloading rather than buying the physical discs, but a notable development from the BIS stable is the availability of their multichannel discs for download from the eClassical site.

The first off the blocks is a new Pulcinella (from, surprisingly, Masaaki Suzuki) and I understand that quite a chunk of their surround recordings are eventually going to be made available for download, apparently at the same price as stereo.

As a matter of curiosity, are there any other board members who, from choice, download rather than buy CD/SACDs?

I haven't been into downloading (except mp3 and such from Amazon and iTunes) and have been quite vocal about it here. However, 3 weeks ago I had an upgrade in my Internet Router. One of my biggest complaints was the time that it took for a High Resolution download (HD Tracks, not readily available in the U.K.) to download (hours) and the dropouts (frequent). Since my new router seems to be a significant improvement, and since I've just bought a new DAC (2 channel), I've been wanting to try High Resolution downloads again and have been looking at the eclassical and Presto sites.
I am also a fan of Multichannel audio and have many SACDs, dVD-As, and Blu Ray Discs. I don't understand the technology behind a multichannel download, such as you describe from BIS. Does one need a special Multichannel DAC to decode it? Such items are rare and expensive.

[Gweefry]

I don't understand the technology behind a multichannel download, such as you describe from BIS. Does one need a special Multichannel DAC to decode it? Such items are rare and expensive.

You're right that a decent download speed is useful - the Pulcinella comes to something like 2.5GB. I'm not sure if there's a standard way of playing multichannel from files as most domestic DACs seem to be stereo only. I've got my pc to run the signal via HDMI to a Denon AVR-2311 and then to speakers. It's a chicken and egg issue, I suppose - the absence of source material hasn't given the equipment manufacturers much encouragement to come up with the goods.

[richardfinegold]

Interestingly, there is an article that I just read this morning in the current issue of Stereophile Magazine by Kalman Rubinson, who is the Multichannel reporter. He does a minireview of two Multichannel DACS, one costs around $3800.00 and the other over $10,000.00 besides the expense they also sound complicated to use
I guess that you use a Windows PC with an HDMI output. I have only Macs and there is no HDMI output. I have 3 systems in my home; one is a dedicated two channel with the good gear, the other two are HT Multichannel Systems with more prosaic equipment. Both the HT Systems have AVRs that are now long in the tooth. They will accept usb drives but only as mp3. They do have HDMI inputs, and both have SACD Players in them, but the SACD players do not accept any digital inputs. Otoh my two channel system
has an Oppo 105 Universal Player that accepts High Resolution inputs and outputs in HDMI, so I could move that player to one of the HT systems and then play a multichannel
download from a usb drive into the Oppo and presumably get true surround sound from a multichannel download. I don't know if I want to bother with all of that right now.
I do have Apple TVs in both HT Systems that connect via HDMI, but not sure how I would get the download into the ATV. I could also borrow my daughters PC which has a HDMI output but she guards it jealously...
How do you like the BIS downloads?

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm not sure how many are into downloading rather than buying the physical discs, but a notable development from the BIS stable is the availability of their multichannel discs for download from the eClassical site.

The first off the blocks is a new Pulcinella (from, surprisingly, Masaaki Suzuki) and I understand that quite a chunk of their surround recordings are eventually going to be made available for download, apparently at the same price as stereo.

As a matter of curiosity, are there any other board members who, from choice, download rather than buy CD/SACDs?

I don't run a multichannel system I'm afraid, the cost of one at the same quality level of my stereo system would be well beyond me. So I can't offer much advice, but BIS are very friendly and responsive to emails, so why not write to them about it? Look in their "assistance" section. Robert Von Bahr often answers the queries himself

I usually buy downloads over CDs these days, especially if the album is available in 24-bit, but I'm easy about it. If I think I'll play it in the bedroom, maybe I'll get the disc; sometimes I just want the CD, y'know? If I really love something I even buy both! But that's very useful for setting up your media player, judging the playback SQ against high quality CD players and transports and so on.

I started downloading in 2011, attracted by hi-res stereo, using XBMC on a Macbook Pro. Now I run Audirvana+ and JRiverMC19 (the warmth of the one, the ultra-transparency of the other, nicely complementary). In 2011 it took around 60 or 70 minutes per GB of 24/96 stereo, now it's less than 5 minutes with fast broadband. I've never had serious problems with downloads... just occasionally in the early days they wouldn't finish and you'd have to do it over. Sometimes there's a glitch on a file, you just redo it, report it if it's inherent. No big deal. Most file-sellers offer free lifetime backup as well.

It is increasingly attractive from the storage point-of-view. I have space for more discs, but then they tend to pile up on the "playback table" awaiting a second play.... much easier to check "latest albums" on your display!
As for my favoured USB playback itself (through Kimber B-Bus), two cunning gadgets that make a musically enjoyable difference are the Audioquest Jitterbug and the Uptone Audio Regen. You can usually get a trial with these, though there's often been a waiting list for the Regen...

http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen

http://www.audioquest.com/jitterbug/jitterbug

(BTW - that BIS Suzuki/Tapiola Stravinsky album is marvellous, as good or better than ANY previous recordings I've heard (HvK, Rattle & Igor S included) of the three works! Most especially the Concerto in D. In 24/96 it's an audio peach...)

[Gweefry]

Like JLW I use JRiver Media Center with a pc. It does occur that a quiet laptop with HDMI would made a very suitable alternative player.

When I retired I made a conscious decision to declutter. CDs (1800+ - ouch) were transferred to HDD, I bought an old PS3 to convert SACDs and a Kindle for book reading. I have to say that the transparency of 24 bit, the convenience of being able to find things immediately and the ease of management have been hugely rewarding, although I am very aware that for many the "thinginess" of the media is important.

BTW - that BIS Suzuki/Tapiola Stravinsky album is marvellous, as good or better than ANY previous recordings I've heard (HvK, Rattle & Igor S included) of the three works! Most especially the Concerto in D. In 24/96 it's an audio peach...

I thoroughly agree with you on that. It should be no surprise that a musician of Suzuki's ability could produce a performance of that quality, but we do tend to like to pigeon hole people! It reminds me of the Martinu recordings which Christopher Hogwood made with the Czech Phil - beautiful performances, but not obviously his core repertoire.

How do you like the BIS downloads?

I've since acquired the Oramo Nielsen Sym 2 & 6. Both recordings seem to be quite the equal of a BIS SACD and, logically, why shouldn't they be? This could get expensive ...

[Cockney Sparrow]

A word about a development (I received an email) at The Classical Shop (the Chandos operated download site). It says the "vast majority of customers….download Hi-Res" will have a "brand new web site" and be able to "order and download larger files…...faster download speeds from….. new servers."
With IT (and life) nothing is for ever, and that has to include their promise of always being able to re-download a purchase. If anyone has made a purchase from the list of cleared out labels (and it’s a long list) and failed to download it (that includes me) then the download needs to be made before 1st June 2016. The full list of labels here:

http://www.theclassicalshop.co.uk/RemovedLabels.pdf

I wonder if the "vast majority of downloads being Hi -Res" is wishful thinking. That old music industry need to upsell and shore up profit levels? They say after the switch they'll still have 1 million+ tracks (26,000)albums, available from the new web site - and yet of that about 3,000 at studio 24/96 quality.

Personally I mostly bought from their hourly special offers, but those have got more and more repetitive and I seldom visit the site now. I felt £9.99 (occasionally more, sometimes less) for nearly all albums was overpriced when I could get the CD delivered for less or not much more. To be fair, though, they usually, but not always, provided the pdf booklet. The booklet is a key consideration in downloads for me - no booklet, no download purchase (when I now buy downloads its usually from eClassical - including their daily offer or bundles).

I can't really hear the difference between Hi-Res and CD (the quality of the recording itself is the key factor) and have equipment of high quality - the hearing of a post 50 years old and the features of the listening room are probably the limiting factors. So having tried the comparison, I stick with CD quality, so I am far away from contemplating Hi Res Surround sound. However I thank those entering this premium market for keeping the audio and recording industry going (also not forgetting the musicians involved). I'm sure the sales are much appreciated. As to my lack of appreciation of Hi Res, this article explained a lot to me:

https://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

[jayne lee wilson]

Be fair to TCS, the message came a few weeks back, their download system needed slicking up, and they are giving you long enough. Almost all my albums from TCS are hi-res, as it happens. But I never yet bought something and then didn't download it, so, er... I guess you better get busy, High Sparrow !

Anyway, as for all those oft-referenced hi-res sceptics... to quote myself (again...):

"If you STOP trying to tell me that I can't possibly hear it, I'll never START trying to tell you that you should."

Deal?

[PJPJ]

......
I am also a fan of Multichannel audio and have many SACDs, dVD-As, and Blu Ray Discs. I don't understand the technology behind a multichannel download, such as you describe from BIS. Does one need a special Multichannel DAC to decode it? Such items are rare and expensive.

An Oppo will play multichannel files (up to 5.1).

[Cockney Sparrow]

I freely admit I don't have golden ears. I don't really see there is any negotiation needed, as I wouldn't want to agree not to state my experience. I'm not telling anyone to hear, or not hear, anything. But surely there is room for another view, that I (amongst others http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=14195 ) don't hear the difference.

"….I can't really hear the difference .....So having tried the comparison, I'll stick with CD quality......... As to my lack of appreciation of Hi Res, this article explained a lot to me: …

[Gordon]

That JAES paper has been under discussion here before [can't find the thread as yet] with a similar result that those can hear do and those that can't don't. Those that aren't that bothered keep it simple. Nothing much will change that position. A live concert of Bruckner 6 last night demonstrated once again that "HiFi" as a substitute for the real thing has its limitations. As for surround we worked on it many years ago and I can't say I am surprised that it has not been a massive success. In my own case the sonic value of it does not balance well with the disruption to domestic arrangements [and cost] that it implies. A number of neighbours have surround systems but they don't use them for music, they watch films and the various speakers are scattered at random. Sound quality as "HiFi" leaves a lot to be desired.

The OP was about download and I confess that I do more DL than buying CDs these days. But that has nothing to do with audio quality and more to do with convenience of listening options, storage etc as well as the availability of the content. Whilst I do DL 96/24 FLAC files where available I can't say I do that primarily for quality reasons.

While we're on the subject of DL, Meridian's MQA, designed in part at least for reducing file sizes for download, is getting on for a couple of years old and yet it doesn't seem to have taken the world by storm or even generated a thread here - or have I missed it?

What I've read about it, it is strong on rhetoric and short on technical detail, ie how it actually works. It seems to me to be a hierarchical system that derives differences between 48/16 and 96/24 [say] and then sends them as an addition to an existing file format to an enabled DAC to be reconstructed as the original. IE a 48/16 file has additional data in the file format that can be used to restore the 96/24 file, that data being less than the extra 48/8 data. A DAC that is not enabled will simply reproduce the "lower" quality. Many moons ago, pre- digital TV, we developed a system that did something similar for video so that HDTV could be delivered in the same format as an SDTV version. Never happened because the consumer video industry thought it too complicated.

Anyone had any experience of MQA?

[richardfinegold]

An Oppo will play multichannel files (up to 5.1).

My problem is that my Oppo sits in a 2 channel system. At the present time I don't have a player for multichannel download files in my multichannel systems. Guess I 'll be sticking with polycarbonate discs for a while