Musical adjectives

[Dave2002]

Someone recently described some of Beethoven's later works as "gloomy", but I disagreed, preferring to call then "serious". Other works by Beethoven were discribed as cheerful, whereas I would have called them "calm","peaceful". (parts of 6th Symphony).

Can anyone think of truly "gloomy" works? Why would anyone want to listen to them anyway?

There are many adjectives which might have some representations in music, or which could decribe music, such as:

Grim, moody, morose, happy, sad, vital, incessant, interminable, cheerful, lively, mournful, vicious, violent, bombastic, triumphant, unpleasant .....


Over to you!

[MrGongGong]

Someone recently described some of Beethoven's later works as "gloomy", but I disagreed, preferring to call then "serious". Other works by Beethoven were discribed as cheerful, whereas I would have called them "calm","peaceful". (parts of 6th Symphony).

Can anyone think of truly "gloomy" works? Why would anyone want to listen to them anyway?

There are many adjectives which might have some representations in music, or which could decribe music, such as:

Grim, moody, morose, happy, sad, vital, incessant, interminable, cheerful, lively, mournful, vicious, violent, bombastic, triumphant, unpleasant .....


Over to you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWlgX0dDuo

[Pabmusic]

Someone recently described some of Beethoven's later works as "gloomy", but I disagreed, preferring to call then "serious". Other works by Beethoven were discribed as cheerful, whereas I would have called them "calm","peaceful". (parts of 6th Symphony).

Can anyone think of truly "gloomy" works? Why would anyone want to listen to them anyway?

There are many adjectives which might have some representations in music, or which could decribe music, such as:

Grim, moody, morose, happy, sad, vital, incessant, interminable, cheerful, lively, mournful, vicious, violent, bombastic, triumphant, unpleasant .....


Over to you!

It really depends on what you mean by 'gloomy'. I suspect there'd be a myriad of interpretations of that word.

[rauschwerk]

Surely one cannot sum up a piece of any substance with just one adjective? Of his sonata for flute, viola and harp, Debussy wrote, "[The music is] so terribly melancholy that I can’t say whether one should laugh or cry. Perhaps both at the same time?"

[teamsaint]

Bad ( or what I think isn't very good) Gloomy music makes me feel gloomy.

great "gloomy" music ( Most Joy Division for example) can be very uplifting.

[Serial_Apologist]

Mahler said of the "Abscheid" from "Dad Lied von der Erde", "Surely people will do away with themselves after hearing this". Music's like language I guess, inasmuch as words and harmonies can upset or uplift; but in both cases the gestures are signifiers, i.e. cultural constructs, otherwise what was there to cheer people up or make them miserable before music and language - apart from wet weekends, noisy neighbours, and the odd death or two?

[Richard Barrett]

The problem here is that adjectives for the way the music seems to be expressing itself (which can already embrace contradictions) are often assumed to double up to describe the emotions it evokes in listeners. There may be a connection and there may not, and of course cultural expectations, and whether one accepts them unquestioningly, or questioningly, or rejects them, have a crucial role to play.

Of course, composers often put verbal indications into their scores to indicate something about the way performers might approach the music and/or something about what it's expressing. If I may be allowed a personal anecdote, I used to do this a lot, with some highly elaborate indications which might go as far as including literary quotes, or which on the other hand might deliberately contradict what might otherwise seem to be the expressive direction of the music or might even be so inscrutable or obtuse as to invoke perplexity in performers ("unimpressive" is one that springs to mind). But, over the years, as the music has (I hope) become more complex and polyvalent in its expressive possibilities, I've ceased altogether to write any words in scores except precisely to describe playing techniques and technical emphases where necessary. This doesn't (again I hope) mean that the music is any less expressive but that it opens up a multiplicity of pathways which performers and/or listeners might take in order to enter into a relationship with the music and experience how it affects them in particular, at a particular time, etc.

So: returning to Beethoven: one of the features that marks out his later work is maybe this very kind of emotional complexity, which hardly any composer before him had even thought worth attempting, given the way that Affektenlehre governed musical materials and structures. With Beethoven this "doctrine of the affections" is blown away revealing something that can no longer be described or experienced in such terms. Those are some random thoughts anyway.

[MickyD]

I think the opening of Sibelius' Fourth Symphony is pretty gloomy!

[ahinton]

I think the opening of Sibelius' Fourth Symphony is pretty gloomy!

Fair comment, but I think that what RB writes about here is very much of the essence, even though some of it relates more specifically to composers' use of verbal performance directions on their scores; the "dancing about architecture" idea, cliché though it has arguably become, has merit, I think, in that, all too often, words can begin to run the risk of falling down as soon as too many of them are used as musical descriptors.

It occurs to me that there might be a point in starting a parallel thread on Musical Adverbs if only a certain well known music critic who shall remain nameless was a member here...

[teamsaint]

Trying to describe music with words is presumably as tricky as trying to describe words with music.

or maths with words.......or .....or.....

[MrGongGong]

Trying to describe music with words is presumably as tricky as trying to describe words with music.

or maths with words.......or .....or.....

In spite of what some say
Music isn't a "language"

[teamsaint]

In spite of what some say
Music isn't a "language"

I didn't say it was.
I'm not sure if you are suggesting that I was saying that, though.

[Beef Oven!]

Fight, fight, fight, fight ....

[teamsaint]

Fight, fight, fight, fight ....

Aren't you due down the pub?

[MrGongGong]

I didn't say it was.
I'm not sure if you are suggesting that I was saying that, though.

I wasn't suggesting that
more that (and i'm rushing so apologies for short reply) talking about "musical adjectives" is probably more about language than music.