Tchaikowsky's last symphony

[Tapiola]

Thank goodness that at last, somebody has posted a sensible reply to my opening post, which I may remind you all was concerning Tchaikowsky's Pathetique Symphony and it's effect on, (or reaction to) people who hear it performed. (especially for the first time)

Nothing to do with Shostakovitch's 14th and 15th symphonies or any other subject.

Well, a thousand apologies from me for having the temerity to suggest that the effect of, and my reaction to, Tchaik 6 (and its last movement), puts me in mind of the last two symphonies of Shostakovich (and various other works). How could I?

I'm too old to be lectured at. But I must thank you, HS, for opening the door unto a very interesting thread and its many and various opinions, insights and experiences, all of which bear relation to Tchaik 6. No?

I could also take issue with your #67 and its simplistic inference that composers tend write in cycles of things (never mind the confusing publication-as-timeline as evidenced by, e.g. Dvorak), but life is too short.

[ahinton]

First of all, greetings to the Bartlettino, and many congratulations and very best wishes to you, his mother and his sibling(s)

"Barrettino", methinks (unless there's something that I don't know about)! - but congratulations and best wishes from me, too.

Oh dear; I realise that I have created an entire post here without even mentioning Tchaikovsky's Sixth Symphony; will I be asked to leave, do you think?...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Barrettino", methinks (unless there's something that I don't know about)!

Oh, crumbs! - I really shouldn't be allowed out unattended. Allow me to present the youngest Barrett with his first apology. (The rest of the greetings/best wished stand.)

[Richard Barrett]

Allow me to present the youngest Barrett with his first apology.

I don't think he is quite aware of what his name is yet, so no need for that. Ahem. Tchaikovsky 6, you say.

[ahinton]

I don't think he is quite aware of what his name is yet, so no need for that. Ahem. Tchaikovsky 6, you say.

Oh, don't call him Pathétique, whatever you do!

[Richard Barrett]

A Symphonic Cycle is like an autobiography in music of a composer's output and achievements

Except of course when it isn't.

[Hornspieler]

Well, a thousand apologies from me for having the temerity to suggest that the effect of, and my reaction to, Tchaik 6 (and its last movement), puts me in mind of the last two symphonies of Shostakovich (and various other works). How could I?

I'm too old to be lectured at. But I must thank you, HS, for opening the door unto a very interesting thread and its many and various opinions, insights and experiences, all of which bear relation to Tchaik 6. No?

I could also take issue with your #67 and its simplistic inference that composers tend write in cycles of things (never mind the confusing publication-as-timeline as evidenced by, e.g. Dvorak), but life is too short.

Thanks for your very helpful reply.

Should it be Tchaikowsky or Tchaikovsky? I note that you avoid the issue by referring to him as Tchaik!

I've always used the composer's name with a "w" but most posters use a "v".

The confusion is not helped by DG's spelling on their CD of Karajan and the Berliners.
On the front of the case, it says Tchaikovsky but on the reverse side it says Tschaikowsky!

Well, something for the nit-pickers to have fun with, anyway.

Have a good weekend!

HS

[Richard Barrett]

Well, something for the nit-pickers to have fun with, anyway.

A nit-picker writes: like many Russian names it's spelled differently and phonetically in different non-Russian languages and indeed at different times and there are dozens of different spellings in use. The most common one in English is Tchaikovsky as can be seen. Tschaikowsky is the usual German spelling; Tchaikowsky is probably used principally on Planet Hornspieler. A purist would have to spell it Чайкoвский.

[teamsaint]

A nit-picker writes: like many Russian names it's spelled differently and phonetically in different non-Russian languages and indeed at different times and there are dozens of different spellings in use. The most common one in English is Tchaikovsky as can be seen. Tschaikowsky is the usual German spelling; Tchaikowsky is probably used principally on Planet Hornspieler. A purist would have to spell it Чайкoвский.

well quite.

always worth googling in the cyrillic too, as gems can be unearthed.

EG: googling Chary Nurymov doesn't reveal as much as Чары Нурымов.

I don't suppose the great Turkmen composer would have worried about the odd thing going a bit off topic. And I imagine he enjoyed Tchaikovsky 6.
In his native country, his name might be written in cyrillic, latin, or the "new Turkmen" alphabet, of course.


Congratulations on the new arrival Richard.

[rauschwerk]

We write 'Chekhov', not 'Tchekhov', so why not 'Chaikovsky'? The T is there only because his music was first taken up by German publishers. But I fear it will never catch on now.

[Richard Barrett]

We write 'Chekhov', not 'Tchekhov', so why not 'Chaikovsky'?

Some people do, particularly musicologists these days. I don't think I could get used to it though.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We write 'Chekhov', not 'Tchekhov', so why not 'Chaikovsky'? The T is there only because his music was first taken up by German publishers. But I fear it will never catch on now.

... seems as if the composer himself was rather fond of the German publishers' "error".

[Richard Barrett]

... seems as if the composer himself was rather fond of the German publishers' error.

It wasn't an error though, that's the most accurate way his name can be rendered in German! "Pierre" is a different matter though... as well as his seeming fondness for the French "ï" which isn't necessary in German... (throws hands up in despair) That's enough nits picked for one day I think. Round here they spell it Чајковски so it isn't even standardised across different Cyrillics, I bet you all wanted to know that.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It wasn't an error though, that's the most accurate way his name can be rendered in German! "Pierre" is a different matter though... as well as his seeming fondness for the French "ï" which isn't necessary in German... (throws hands up in despair) That's enough nits picked for one day I think. Round here they spell it Чајковски so it isn't even standardised across different Cyrillics, I bet you all wanted to know that.

Well - I found it interesting: but don't let that put you off. I was a little surprised to see his Russian Cyrillic autograph - I had thought that as a middle-class educated Russian, his language of conditioning was French?

However, when he did use Western letters, he was uncertain about "v" or "w", but definitely felt that there should be an "s" after the "T", even when signing his forename as "Pierre".

[ahinton]

Well - I found it interesting: but don't let that put you off. I was a little surprised to see his Russian Cyrillic autograph - I had thought that as a middle-class educated Russian, his language of conditioning was French?

However, when he did use Western letters, he was uncertain about "v" or "w", but definitely felt that there should be an "s" after the "T", even when signing his forename as "Pierre".

Now what makes me think that someone around these 'ere parts will be back in a moment to chide all the name-spellers for exchanging discussions of that subject on the grounds that it has nothing to do with his Sixth Symphony...