Tchaikowsky's last symphony

[Hornspieler]

Whilst backing up my cassettes, I came to Karajan's recording with the BPO of the Pathetique. As I listened to the closing bars, I realised that I was crying. Such moving music. Was this the composer's farewell self-written obituary?

There are many stories about tragedies that have occurred after the performance of this, possibly Tchaikowsky's finest work.

It was the last work that Dennis Brain played before his tragic death, driving home from the Edinburgh Festival. Stories abound about other instances of tragedies and unexpected deaths among other orchestral players - and I believe that one orchestra's musicians actually refused to perform the work, claiming that there was a curse on it.

Who could fail to be moved by those closing bars? The most beautiful and heart-rending notes, surpassing even the ending of Mahler's "Kindertotenlieder"

Maybe it's just my own reaction, but although I cried for my friend and colleague Dennis those fifty odd years ago, it was not that, but the sheer beauty and meaningfullness of those closing bars which bring tears to the eyes and a lump in the throat.

Am I alone in this reaction?

HS

[verismissimo]

Whilst backing up my cassettes, I came to Karajan's recording with the BPO of the Pathetique. As I listened to the closing bars, I realised that I was crying. Such moving music. Was this the composer's farewell self-written obituary?

There are many stories about tragedies that have occurred after the performance of this, possibly Tchaikowsky's finest work.

It was the last work that Dennis Brain played before his tragic death, driving home from the Edinburgh Festival. Stories abound about other instances of tragedies and unexpected deaths among other orchestral players - and I believe that one orchestra's musicians actually refused to perform the work, claiming that there was a curse on it.

Who could fail to be moved by those closing bars? The most beautiful and heart-rending notes, surpassing even the ending of Mahler's "Kindertotenlieder"

Maybe it's just my own reaction, but although I cried for my friend and colleague Dennis those fifty odd years ago, it was not that, but the sheer beauty and meaningfullness of those closing bars which bring tears to the eyes and a lump in the throat.

Am I alone in this reaction?

HS

Oh no, HS.

[Ferretfancy]

Whilst backing up my cassettes, I came to Karajan's recording with the BPO of the Pathetique. As I listened to the closing bars, I realised that I was crying. Such moving music. Was this the composer's farewell self-written obituary?

There are many stories about tragedies that have occurred after the performance of this, possibly Tchaikowsky's finest work.

It was the last work that Dennis Brain played before his tragic death, driving home from the Edinburgh Festival. Stories abound about other instances of tragedies and unexpected deaths among other orchestral players - and I believe that one orchestra's musicians actually refused to perform the work, claiming that there was a curse on it.

Who could fail to be moved by those closing bars? The most beautiful and heart-rending notes, surpassing even the ending of Mahler's "Kindertotenlieder"

Maybe it's just my own reaction, but although I cried for my friend and colleague Dennis those fifty odd years ago, it was not that, but the sheer beauty and meaningfullness of those closing bars which bring tears to the eyes and a lump in the throat.

Am I alone in this reaction?

HS

I'm always moved by the Pathetique, but it's very often Mozart who brings unexpected tears to my eyes. It's a certain sense of living perfection that steals up on you. The world is a better place when we meet it.

[slarty]

Quite a coincidence HS,

I have been listening/transferring a performance this morning which may very well include your participation.
Bournemouth June 1965 under Silvestri, quite a performance. were your playing on it?
I am transferring quite a number of elderly looking CDR-s which really have deteriorated quite badly.
Thankfully there are some back-ups on Minidisc.
Back to your point HS, it does move me still, except when someone perversely takes the last movement at half speed stretching it to almost 18 minutes!!!

[Dave2002]

I am transferring quite a number of elderly looking CDR-s which really have deteriorated quite badly.
Thankfully there are some back-ups on Minidisc.

Back to your point HS, it does move me still, except when someone perversely takes the last movement at half speed stretching it to almost 18 minutes!!!

Were the recordings from minidisc in the first place? if not, it might be worth trying to recover the data from the CDRs, perhaps using a software tool such as EAC (Exact Audio Copy), as in theory the sound quality would be slightly better. However, I have found at some minidsc recordings sound excellent, and recordings made onto HiMD discs should be as good as CDs.

I have given up on some optical discs, which have presumably been irretrievably damaged by light and/or heat, and if I can't retrieve them easily they go in the bin.

i have actually now started to think about other storage, including cheap SDHC cards. i bought some 16 Gbyte ones the other day for £3 each - which is about 19p per Gbyte, or perhaps 5p per CD equivalent stored in FLAC or ALAC formats. Large hard drives can work out at under 5p per Gbyte, but if you put all your material on one drive snd that fails you lose the lot.

Re the Tchaikowsky, were you thinking of Bernstein perhaps? I generally find the last movement very moving and slowness unless really excessive wouldn't worry me too much.

[slarty]

Hi Dave, these CD-Rs were made by someone else, I have inherited them. The CDRs are different sources from the MDs, so although I can retrieve the performance from MD, they are not always in the same sound quality. I have EAC and two other ripping programmes, but in this case the bad discs all have the same fault. They have printed sticky paper labels stuck on the CDRs. The discs have lain dormant for a long time and the paper labels have marginally shrunk, giving the discs a "dished" appearance, so although each CD can play its first couple of tracks, they then start to mis-read. I strongly advise anyone against sticky paper labels for CDRs or DVD-Rs. Mind you, I wish the 18 minute last movement had a sticky label on both sides.

[ahinton]

A great and deeply moving work it is, without question, but then look at all that led up to it in the composer's output! In just 30+ years of his mere half century of life, his achievements in the field of opera, ballet, orchestral music, songs, piano music and chamber music are truly immense.

[Dave2002]

Slarty

Is it possible to soak the labels off? If the discs are already in poor condition it's not likely to make them worse.

[slarty]

I tried a heat gun Dave, but the adhesive is so strong, that it warped the disc even more.
I wonder what kind of solution to use if I were to stick a few In a bucket of water overnight.
Dischwasher powder?

[Dave2002]

I tried a heat gun Dave, but the adhesive is so strong, that it warped the disc even more.
I wonder what kind of solution to use if I were to stick a few In a bucket of water overnight.
Dischwasher powder?

Shame. What were the recordings? Irreplaceable - apart from the MDs? if the paper is porous it might soak off, or with a bit of scraping.

Desperate measures!

[Hornspieler]

Quite a coincidence HS,

I have been listening/transferring a performance this morning which may very well include your participation.
Bournemouth June 1965 under Silvestri, quite a performance. were your playing on it?
I am transferring quite a number of elderly looking CDR-s which really have deteriorated quite badly.
Thankfully there are some back-ups on Minidisc.
Back to your point HS, it does move me still, except when someone perversely takes the last movement at half speed stretching it to almost 18 minutes!!!

Yes, I was there Slarty. I joined the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra in April 1958 and left in August 1966. Subsequently, after leaving Belfast in 1968, I did undertake a certain amount of extra and deputy work until I retired from playing in 1973 to become Manager of the BBC Training Orchestra.*

To return to the subject:

Always a problem for players and conductors alike.

The third movement is a triumphal march with a "that's all, folks" ending. So some members of the audience will think the piece is over and burst out into loud applause. (Conductor then waves his free hand behind his back at the audience in the vain hope of gaining an expectant silence).

Silvestri had a better method of dealing with the problem. He would turn to face the customers and acknowledge the applause on behalf of himself and the orchestra. When the applause died down he would turn back to face the orchestra with baton raised.

Those who had applauded so happily thought they were going to get an encore and were silent in expectation.

That is when the Maestro would start the soul-searching final movement.



* In January 1969A, I was privilaged to be engaged to play with the orchestra in Exeter in a performance of Straus's
Don Quixote and Joined him during the concert interval to reminisce about our times together.

The Maestro died in hospital 24 hours later.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Shame. What were the recordings? Irreplaceable - apart from the MDs? if the paper is porous it might soak off, or with a bit of scraping.

Desperate measures!

Suggest you test the adhesive. Some need solvents like alcohol (vodka (or isoproyl alcohol if you have other uses - Maplin use to, may still, sell a litre of it) or meths or dry cleaning spot remover (so that may affect the plastic surface).

Others - scrape off as much of the adhesive layer as possible, then work some oil (sunflower or other cooking oil) into the adhesive remains. It may become incorporated into the adhesive, if so add sufficient oil to make it of some bulk, then scrape the bulk of that off. And then the remnant can be washed / dissolved in detergent. (Got this tip off Bob Flowerdew on Gardeners Question Time).

Time consuming, so presumable the recording needs to be worth it!

[richardfinegold]

I always found the 5th a lot more moving than the Pathetique, particularly the 2nd movement, which had me entranced when I discovered it as a teenager. I'm not denying the greatness of the 6th, but it just never got inside my skin like the 5th.

[Ferretfancy]

I always found the 5th a lot more moving than the Pathetique, particularly the 2nd movement, which had me entranced when I discovered it as a teenager. I'm not denying the greatness of the 6th, but it just never got inside my skin like the 5th.

For me, most of the 5th is superb, but it falls to pieces in the last movement when the "big tune' reappears with the Dum Tee Dum Tee Dum Tee Dum peroration which vulgarises it. Just a personal view, but it spoils the symphony for me.

[richardfinegold]

For me, most of the 5th is superb, but it falls to pieces in the last movement when the "big tune' reappears with the Dum Tee Dum Tee Dum Tee Dum peroration which vulgarises it. Just a personal view, but it spoils the symphony for me.

You're not the first person to say that, but I've never felt that way. To me, the over the top emoting of I and IV of the Pathetique come closer to the line of vulgarity.