Musician sues Royal Opera House over ruined hearing

[MrGongGong]

Given most of the loudest rock concerts are in the range of 110-120db .

Where on earth did you get this?
Given that 120db is regarded as a level that will cause permanent hearing loss I think you will find that most of them are considerably less that that.

[Simon B]

It is a very thorough judgment. It will make uncomfortable reading for Tony Pappano I imagine.

Thorough and clear indeed. To the point that anyone with an interest should be able to read and understand almost all of it - whether they have knowledge of the the technical, medical or legal aspects or not. The technical aspects have been commendably well understood and explained. The judgement provides a better summary of the general problem than much other published information in the area - though I'm reading from a position of in-depth familiarity which might make it easier to follow.

Putting aside the very specific particulars of the case, some of the general points are striking.

The injured musician had the bell of the 1st trumpet's instrument between 10 and 36 inches from his right ear. Anyone who's ever found themselves with the business end of a trumpet near them wouldn't fancy that for 30 seconds of Mozart, let alone hours of Die Walkure... Even assuming getting the brass to play down in all orchestras all the time is really a sensible proposition, what's the difference? 3dB? 6dB? At 6dB down it'll sound to the audience like the brass have decided they can't be bothered, yet in that position that same player will be getting peak SPLs of 134dBC instead of 140dBC. Ear-splitting instead of slightly more ear-splitting. Sitting just 22 inches away instead of 10 would have the same effect (in a simple analysis ignoring reflections, which is reasonable in the near-field given that a trumpet is basically a highly directional point source)...

The lack of space in cramped pit of an old venue which can't be modified seems to be an intractable problem which precludes the more sensible solution of having space in front of the heavy brass. If someone really has to go right in front of the trumpets, as a last resort perhaps it should be rotating desks of strings who in the loud sections of this sort of rep just stop playing and deploy as much protection as it takes, or even leave the pit for a while. Nobody will likely notice the difference at those moments and even if they do it's better than the alternative.

[Simon B]

Where on earth did you get this?
Given that 120db is regarded as a level that will cause permanent hearing loss I think you will find that most of them are considerably less that that.

Conflating transient peak and time averaged SPLs?

Or some weird weighting or reference SPL. The latter is a general issue with dB scales as you very likely know - the question "dBs over what?" is unfortunately met with a blank look unless people really understand logarithmic measures.

Assuming we're talking dB SPL (dB over 20 uPa) 120dB transient isn't that high but sustained would permanently damage your hearing in seconds. Of course, 120dB at the speaker apertures is quite different from 120dB 20 feet away...

[cloughie]

Where on earth did you get this?
Given that 120db is regarded as a level that will cause permanent hearing loss I think you will find that most of them are considerably less that that.

GG, Nothing to do with decibels but is your avatar a Portuguese Custard Tart?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wonder if there are particular problems associated with opera performances . The players are closer together in the pit and in a box with the roof missing in effect . The brass have a hard reflective wall behind them . Even the sound levels at an RFH concert can be - to use a subjective word - ear -splitting . I made the mistake of sitting in the second row at Prokofiev Symphony 5 concert once - never again. Raising the brass doesn't help matters - it simply makes it louder for the rest of the audience . If the consequence of all this is quieter symphony and opera performances so much the better. I think we consistently underestimate the impact of sound and noise on not just hearing loss but also tinnitus . I have a DB app on my phone which I've checked against more professional equipment - forumites would be amazed at the sound levels at ballets or musicals where amplification is used . It's not just the peak levels but the consistent compression that is wearing our ears out...

[gradus]

I can remember tremendous volume and having to cover my ears during a performance of Mahler 8 at the RFH (Tennstedt) so it must have been very painful for those on stage, ditto during a horrendously over-amplified latin jazz performance at Snape when three quarters of the audience left at half-time with ears ringing.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wonder if there are particular problems associated with opera performances . The players are closer together in the pit and in a box with the roof missing in effect . The brass have a hard reflective wall behind them . Even the sound levels at an RFH concert can be - to use a subjective word - ear -splitting . I made the mistake of sitting in the second row at Prokofiev Symphony 5 concert once - never again. Raising the brass doesn't help matters - it simply makes it louder for the rest of the audience . If the consequence of all this is quieter symphony and opera performances so much the better. I think we consistently underestimate the impact of sound and noise on not just hearing loss but also tinnitus . I have a DB app on my phone which I've checked against more professional equipment - forumites would be amazed at the sound levels at ballets or musicals where amplification is used . It's not just the peak levels but the consistent compression that is wearing our ears out...

I can remember tremendous volume and having to cover my ears during a performance of Mahler 8 at the RFH (Tennstedt) so it must have been very painful for those on stage, ditto during a horrendously over-amplified latin jazz performance at Snape when three quarters of the audience left at half-time with ears ringing.

Don't get me going on amplification. It's mostly unnecessary and has a negative effect on the music. For example - Scarborough Jazz Club, performed in a small room, with everything amplified, including the trumpet; Phantom of the Opera, with an opera orchestration, all amplified; article Gramophone re getting young people interested in music, saying "up the amplification"; Sing-up "Big Sing" in Bridlington Spa, for primary school children, bussed in from all over the county - decibel level from the group on stage "leading" the singing (actually dominating) horrendous, with children crying, and having to be given time-out, rather than lowering the amplification to a suitable love; disco in Special School, inappropriately loud, with very distressed children , from teachers and TAs, who are under the impression that they are doing the victims a favour.

[Lat-Literal]

Where on earth did you get this?
Given that 120db is regarded as a level that will cause permanent hearing loss I think you will find that most of them are considerably less that that.

I did say the loudest rock concerts.

I can be more specific - the loudest parts of the loudest rock concerts.

This is confirmed on most relevant websites.

Given that I was mostly standing beside the left speaker, I am fortunate in only having very mild hearing loss.

It was not only a good place to view performances but usefully quite empty for someone who isn't keen on being in the middle of a lot of people.

[BBMmk2]

I dread to think what the ramifications will be, concerning all this. Oh dear!

[Dave2002]

"Unfortunately" some of my relatives play brass instruments. Actually I don't mind that - but we were invited to a school concert with some of the boys playing. Given seats in the front row - with some of the players only a foot or two in front. Ouch! Ouch! Ouch and three times Ouch!

Much though we like music, that was painful.

It may have affected our hearing - though it's difficult to be sure as there are so many factors, and some might occur "naturally" anyway.

Not music (always) but I find the sound effects and "music" at theatre performances often close to unbearable - National Theatre and other London Theatres. The *****s who put on such productions seem to think that audiences are either all deaf (possible, if they go to the theatre a lot), or not getting their money's worth if they don't get the fullest possible blast of sound the sound kit is capable of. Also, they don't seem to realise that theatre is "about" experiences, not actually delivering them. If I go to a play about the first, second or other world war I can understand the issues - bombing, gunfire etc. and the effect it might have on participants and others.

It doesn't mean I want to experience them personally.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Don't get me going on amplification. It's mostly unnecessary and has a negative effect on the music. For example - Scarborough Jazz Club, performed in a small room, with everything amplified, including the trumpet; Phantom of the Opera, with an opera orchestration, all amplified; article Gramophone re getting young people interested in music, saying "up the amplification"; Sing-up "Big Sing" in Bridlington Spa, for primary school children, bussed in from all over the county - decibel level from the group on stage "leading" the singing (actually dominating) horrendous, with children crying, and having to be given time-out, rather than lowering the amplification to a suitable love; disco in Special School, inappropriately loud, with very distressed children , from teachers and TAs, who are under the impression that they are doing the victims a favour.

Could not agree more . Both Pizza Express and Ronnie Scott's amplify ( it has to be said very well and usually not ridiculously loud ) but in rooms of that size it shouldn't be necessary . It does cut through all the chit-chat but then the chatters just talk louder and shout their orders to the no doubt hearing impaired staff . Recently went to see Matthew Bourne's ( aka Prokoviev's ) Cinderella . Pre recorded soundtrack nothing quieter than mezzo-forte , implausibly loud orchestral climaxes and very loud bangs - well it was the blitz...Just to add it is , of course , many times worse when young children are subjected to excessive sound levels their ears are more susceptible to hearing damage.

[Darkbloom]

I wonder if there are particular problems associated with opera performances . The players are closer together in the pit and in a box with the roof missing in effect . The brass have a hard reflective wall behind them . Even the sound levels at an RFH concert can be - to use a subjective word - ear -splitting . I made the mistake of sitting in the second row at Prokofiev Symphony 5 concert once - never again. Raising the brass doesn't help matters - it simply makes it louder for the rest of the audience . If the consequence of all this is quieter symphony and opera performances so much the better. I think we consistently underestimate the impact of sound and noise on not just hearing loss but also tinnitus . I have a DB app on my phone which I've checked against more professional equipment - forumites would be amazed at the sound levels at ballets or musicals where amplification is used . It's not just the peak levels but the consistent compression that is wearing our ears out...

I wonder if there have been any complaints about the Bayreuth Orchestra, where you not only have lots of pretty loud music over a concentrated period, but you also have a canopy over the orchestra. The Schalldeckel might have been designed to help audiences, but (adding the summer heat to the mix) the place must be a nightmare to work in.

[MrGongGong]

I did say the loudest rock concerts.

I can be more specific - the loudest parts of the loudest rock concerts.

This is confirmed on most relevant websites.

Given that I was mostly standing beside the left speaker, I am fortunate in only having very mild hearing loss.

It was not only a good place to view performances but usefully quite empty for someone who isn't keen on being in the middle of a lot of people.

But measured from where?
When I used to go to outdoor festivals in the 1980's I noticed that when I jumped in the air the sound of Motorhead at Donnington was like a blow to the stomach BUT the slightest whiff of wind and it all went to Leicester.

I have also read these things BUT i'm a little sceptical as there was a macho thing about volume which meant that people made up all sorts of nonsense AND some local authorities put db meters right in front of high and midrange units which would give readings in excess of 120db (and sometimes triggering the cutting of power).
Sound does lose considerable energy in relatively short distances (dependent on frequency and a host of other factors).
But, in my experience, those who work with amplified sound are often much more aware of the dangers of volume than those in orchestras etc

[MrGongGong]

GG, Nothing to do with decibels but is your avatar a Portuguese Custard Tart?

Pastel de Nata indeed
Just on the way home from some gigs here (quite loud n'all )

[John Wright]

Musician's hearing damage - landmark ruling

Would welcome comments from orchestral players here.

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/03/30/royal-opera-house-lawsuit/

John