Daft Punk - the future of music?

[MrGongGong]

Like the Cabaret Voltaire and Throbbing Gristle?

Never heard of them

[Beef Oven!]

Never heard of them

[Lat-Literal]

Erm......

If they are the future of music we should know by now. Their first release was in the 1990s, not that far from when a French electronic duo - hah - Air, issued "Moon Safari":

Air - Kelly Watch The Stars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rui0hzN-EFE

I am wary on several levels. Any instinct to be dismissive of techno, drum n bass etc etc etc whose roots, along with the concepts of house music and beats per minute, grew at least a decade earlier is countered by memories of the generational divisions in the 1960s/1970s. That is to say when one moans about the persistent thump, thump, thumping of a hammer from passing girl and boy racers, there is the uneasy thought that for our parents the electric guitar did not live - or even blend in - with the garden roses . I can accept, too, Daft Punk do not quite fit into the aforementioned two-a-penny categories, not least because a wide range of award shows in the 2000s sponsored by Coca Cola told us so.

Secondly, for the sound of 2050 they wear a hell of a lot of past references. The first main wave of music genuinely produced in ordinary bedrooms occurred in the late 1970s or in the case of electronica the early 1980s. No, actually, BEF predated Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark. Somewhat incredibly, they have name checked, among others, Brian Wilson (1960s). The involvement of Nile Rodgers (1970s) and Giorgio Moroder (1970s) makes more sense and is in its way impressive but there is a hint that it is designed to confirm some sort of classic status. To convincingly be Kraftwerk (1970s) meets punk (1970s) and rave (late 1980s) and futurism (recalled fondly in BBC documentaries 30-40 years from now) would require less of a commercial non-conformity - or maybe not.......Perhaps I am not quite absorbing the bigger nuances in any reasonably current cultural re-drawing!!

Thirdly, it is true that certain acts stand out on the conveyer belt as being different. We had all of the hoo-ha about math rock - Bloc Party anyone? - and earnest Newsnight panels discussing - how does one write this? - The xx. Were the latter groundbreaking or simply elevator music? Would the panel want to hear them in an elevator? Note the American in both "math" and "elevator" and cue Morley and Greer saying that music no longer has the significance it had. Sure, the youngsters are out clubbing but if we switch The tv off now we can get up early on Saturday morning and enjoy the sunshine should it appear. Fourthly, soul may be an issue. "Where is it?" but that would apply across the board in this century and more so in most other areas. In essence, there is nothing especially cold in non-roots music but the degree of warmth varies and it is in line with the amount of heart that has been put into it. LCD Soundsystem - he/they were going to be the future of music and was/were not without commitment. Daft Punk were playing at his/their house:

LCD Soundsystem - Daft Punk are Playing in My House - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj8JrQ9w5jY

[verismissimo]

Recently I've been enjoying All Time Low. As my 13yo daughter says: they are a Real Band, not a Boy Band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaIegdJxTsE

[jean]

"I am increasingly drawn to the more orthodox approaches to the "avant garde." "

Erm isn't that a "tautology" ?

Erm don't you mean "oxymoron"?

[Serial_Apologist]

Erm don't you mean "oxymoron"?

I couldn't think of the word "oxymoron" in a senior moment lasting all day, yesterday.

[MrGongGong]

Erm don't you mean "oxymoron"?

Probably, but I was sure the linguists would put me right hence the ?

Can one have an "orthodox avant garde" ?
Can one have an institutionalised "avant garde" ?

[ahinton]

Can one have an "orthodox avant garde" ?
Can one have an institutionalised "avant garde" ?

I doubt it, given the implicit contradictions in terms. That said, I've often wondered how moronic is the oxy variety...

To put another question, would noise music from a virtuoso organist be Merzbowyer?

Must go and buy another supply of coats...

[ahinton]

I couldn't think of the word "oxymoron" in a senior moment lasting all day, yesterday.

A well known English soprano (no names, no packing of Black & Deckers) once ruefully confessed to me in an email that, these days, senior moments are turning into senior fortnights (and she wasn't even especially senior when she did so - and isn't yet, for that matter).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Probably, but I was sure the linguists would put me right hence the ?

Can one have an "orthodox avant garde" ?
Can one have an institutionalised "avant garde" ?

I presumed that there was a "rather than" missing from the middle:

I am increasingly drawn to the more orthodox approaches rather than to the "avant garde"

[jean]

I doubt that, actually.

But it's also unlkely that Mr GG's question mark indicated uncertainty in the face of assembled linguists lurking; it was addressed to Ian Thumwood, whose statement was being ridiculed.

Perhape we need a thread attempting to define avant garde.

[Ian Thumwood]

Of course there is no single "future of music". Ian yet again presents his prejudices as if they were facts, but that's been covered. What I wonder is how it can be reckoned that young people with no musical training making stuff in their bedrooms with (often) such a sophisticated sense of hearing and such preconception-free imagination is somehow a "bad thing". People said very much the same things about jazz back in the day.

Richard

I am frankly amazed by your response.

Although I was deliberately trying to be controversial and provocative, I still think there are some major "problems" with this approach to music making. Some of the Daft Punk tracks clearly show an influence of 70's groups like Chic and I would have to say that I am an admirer of Nile Rodgers - someone who knows what he is doing musically and, for that matter, a guitarist who comes from a jazz background. I am not arguing that this fact makes his more "significant" but it does mean that he has the musical tools at his disposal to produce something that has a degree of nous about it.

The point with Daft Punk is that it is part of a broadening democracy within music whereby the doors have been opened up to non musicians. I am not convinced by the suggestion that people producing music in their bedrooms all have a preconception - free imagination. A lot of the music "produced" is sampled (i.e. stolen) from other artists such as the famous example of The Orb's "Little fluffy clouds" which ripped off Steve Reich. Oddly, I think that this kind of stuff does owe a whole lot to Minimalism but perhaps lacks the sophistication of a Reich, Adams, etc.

Rhythmically, there is little variation and I think the fact that a lot of this stuff consists of 4 - bar phrases looped over and over again is totally tedium. To my ears, this is a massive problem is a lot of contemporary music and has been increasingly common with a lot of younger jazz musicians looks for inspiration beyond playing standards but within the creative ability or foresight of someone like Paul Bley. For me, there is an evolution within music in terms of harmony, rhythm, melody, form and even timbre which makes developments in many oeuvres fascinating. The Techno approach , to my ears, is very much a reaction against this and I would consider it to be regressive. I am increasingly fond of more avant garde styles of jazz but I think it is the ideals of players like Ornette, Cecil Taylor, Paul Bley, AACM or even the contemporary Chicago scene that strives of a more expansive vision of music not constrained by rigid forms nor seduced repetitive patterns that really matters in music. One of the most appealing qualities in music is improvisation or at least a sense of development. Couple with things such as counterpoint, it is these ideas which make music more interesting to the ear. The better pop material will often have several musical ideas running simultaneously and improvisation is at the heart of many things from Bach, Chopin, Armstrong, Parker, Coltrane or Jimi Hendrix. I find the likes of other Techno / Daft Punk to be almost anti-music in this respect. Some of the 70's inspired Daft Punk tracks like "Louder harder / faster" are an improvement and not too bad. However, the track with Derek Bailey posted by SA was a total shock and I was amazed that this combination existed - the guitarist's intriguing approach to music has been something that I have long-since respected. Coupling him with the drum n' bass act seemed a total confliction.



The initial point of the post was prompted by the rather poor documentary which did little to explain the music as opposed to almost consider the social significance of this music. The programme promised much but didn't present a very convincing argument.

Always good to argue with your Richard as I sense you are a contrarian. Staggering that there aren't more out there who are able to advance my argument more eloquently.

[verismissimo]

... Perhape we need a thread attempting to define avant garde.

Oh, let's not.

[Richard Barrett]

The point with Daft Punk is that it is part of a broadening democracy within music whereby the doors have been opened up to non musicians.

Right. And my point is that this isn't a problem.

I am not convinced by the suggestion that people producing music in their bedrooms all have a preconception-free imagination.

Neither am I, which is why I said often instead of always or even mostly.

I'm not a contrarian by any means. I would say my musical world-view is rather consistent, and clearly interconnected with my views on other issues. I'm surprised that you shouldn't admit the possibility that this particular democratisation of music is so much less valuable than the developments that led to blues and jazz, which both have their origins in the combination of previously existent musical cultures, comparable in conceptual if not technological terms to the kind of sampling that began in the 1980s. Anyway, I don't really know enough about Daft Punk to comment in more detail.

[muzzer]

I think it was a lousy programme to be honest. Told me nothing about their music. But that's a separate issue from whether or not DP are any good. That depends as with all music on your point of view....