Furtwangler and Mahler

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hiya Barbirollians,

According to his discography (Hunt) Furtwangler did play some Mahler e.g. Das Lied von der Erde, some Lieder, Kindertotenlieder, Sym's 1, 2, 3 & 4. He recorded Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen. But quite soon after Mahler's death say the late 1920s his music was virtually forgotten. In the mid 1930s the ban on Jewish music was the nail in the coffin for Mahler for some time.

Hi, Stanf

Mahler's Music was certainly banned in Nazi Germany (and in occupied countries in the '40s) but it wasn't "virtually forgotten" there in the '20s: Fried recorded the Resurrection in Berlin in 1924, Webern performed Mahler's work regularly (he was even responsible for "converting" Brtitten to the Music, conducting the Fourth Symphony in London in 1933), as did Klemperer, Adler (who conducted the first Ruckertlieder in Berlin in 1930), Horenstein (the first Kindertotenlieder in 1928), and Walter - and Zemlinsky conducted the Fourth in Vienna in 1935; a concert which was broadcast and listened to by Britten). Abroad, Mengelberg programmed the Music regularly until the Nazi occupation - including another broadcast performance of the Fourth in 1934, which Britten also heard and wasn't much impressed by). The first recording of the Fourth Symphony was made in Tokyo (!) in 1930; Stokowski and Ormandy (who made the second recording of the Resurrection in 1935) programmed the Music in the USA - AS DID Schoenberg! - who conducted the LAPO in movements from the Seventh Symphony; a concert that was broadcast and recordings of which can be found on youTube); Talich recorded the first DLvdE in Stokholm in 1934; it was frequent enough in British programmes for RVW to speak disparagingly of it and for Cardus to become enthusiastic about it.

Oops! Forgot to mention the Soviet Union, where it received sufficiently frequent performances in the '20s to impress Shostakovich.

[ahinton]

Hi, Stanf

Mahler's Music was certainly banned in Nazi Germany (and in occupied countries in the '40s) but it wasn't "virtually forgotten" there in the '20s: Fried recorded the Resurrection in Berlin in 1924, Webern performed Mahler's work regularly (he was even responsible for "converting" Brtitten to the Music, conducting the Fourth Symphony in London in 1933), as did Klemperer, Adler (who conducted the first Ruckertlieder in Berlin in 1930), Horenstein (the first Kindertotenlieder in 1928), and Walter - and Zemlinsky conducted the Fourth in Vienna in 1935; a concert which was broadcast and listened to by Britten). Abroad, Mengelberg programmed the Music regularly until the Nazi occupation - including another broadcast performance of the Fourth in 1934, which Britten also heard and wasn't much impressed by). The first recording of the Fourth Symphony was made in Tokyo (!) in 1930; Stokowski and Ormandy (who made the second recording of the Resurrection in 1935) programmed the Music in the USA - AS DID Schoenberg! - who conducted the LAPO in movements from the Seventh Symphony; a concert that was broadcast and recordings of which can be found on youTube); Talich recorded the first DLvdE in Stokholm in 1934; it was frequent enough in British programmes for RVW to speak disparagingly of it and for Cardus to become enthusiastic about it.

Oops! Forgot to mention the Soviet Union, where it received sufficiently frequent performances in the '20s to impress Shostakovich.

Many thanks for putting this record straight (along with others). Mahler was not often performed in UK and Sorabji railed at this glaring omission at every opportunity, having come to believe that Mahler was one of the most important composers who had been largely marginalised and sidelined there - but there were some outings for his work there even so.

[Barbirollians]

Hi, Stanf

Mahler's Music was certainly banned in Nazi Germany (and in occupied countries in the '40s) but it wasn't "virtually forgotten" there in the '20s: Fried recorded the Resurrection in Berlin in 1924, Webern performed Mahler's work regularly (he was even responsible for "converting" Brtitten to the Music, conducting the Fourth Symphony in London in 1933), as did Klemperer, Adler (who conducted the first Ruckertlieder in Berlin in 1930), Horenstein (the first Kindertotenlieder in 1928), and Walter - and Zemlinsky conducted the Fourth in Vienna in 1935; a concert which was broadcast and listened to by Britten). Abroad, Mengelberg programmed the Music regularly until the Nazi occupation - including another broadcast performance of the Fourth in 1934, which Britten also heard and wasn't much impressed by). The first recording of the Fourth Symphony was made in Tokyo (!) in 1930; Stokowski and Ormandy (who made the second recording of the Resurrection in 1935) programmed the Music in the USA - AS DID Schoenberg! - who conducted the LAPO in movements from the Seventh Symphony; a concert that was broadcast and recordings of which can be found on youTube); Talich recorded the first DLvdE in Stokholm in 1934; it was frequent enough in British programmes for RVW to speak disparagingly of it and for Cardus to become enthusiastic about it.

Oops! Forgot to mention the Soviet Union, where it received sufficiently frequent performances in the '20s to impress Shostakovich.

There is a difference though surely between it continuing to be played and being fashionable . Whilst therefore there may have been conductors who kept the flame very much alive in the 1920s and 1930s - others dropped the music like WF - and for reasons other than political ones .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There is a difference though surely between it continuing to be played and being fashionable . Whilst therefore there may have been conductors who kept the flame very much alive in the 1920s and 1930s - others dropped the music like WF - and for reasons other than political ones .

Oh, indeed - I was responding to Stanf's specific point about Mahler's Music being "virtually forgotten" by the later '20s. There was great antagonism to the Music from the wider public (just as there had always been in Mahler's lifetime) but still sufficient interest amongst the aficionados to make performances and recordings viable and keep the composer's name "current". Not unlike, say, Lachenmann today.

Who else "dropped" the Music like WF?

[ahinton]

Oh, indeed - I was responding to Stanf's specific point about Mahler's Music being "virtually forgotten" by the later '20s. There was great antagonism to the Music from the wider public (just as there had always been in Mahler's lifetime) but still sufficient interest amongst the aficionados to make performances and recordings viable and keep the composer's name "current". Not unlike, say, Lachenmann today.

Indeed; during his lifetime, the only work that seemed to attract instant public approbation was the Eighth Symphony.

Who else "dropped" the Music like WF?

Good question in that it distinguishes between them and others who had never taken it up in the first place, for whatever reasons or none.

[Barbirollians]

Oh, indeed - I was responding to Stanf's specific point about Mahler's Music being "virtually forgotten" by the later '20s. There was great antagonism to the Music from the wider public (just as there had always been in Mahler's lifetime) but still sufficient interest amongst the aficionados to make performances and recordings viable and keep the composer's name "current". Not unlike, say, Lachenmann today.

[Petrushka]

Perhaps another factor to be taken into account is the shift away from gigantic orchestral and choral statements in the 1920s possibly due to the post-First World War mood where there was a decisive change in 'fashion'. There might well have been disruption to any Mahler performances in Germany even prior to 1933 but in any event the coming of the Third Reich thereafter made any such performance impossible.

Interesting to note that two other conductors of a generation below Furtwangler, Karl Böhm and Eugen Jochum, also did very little Mahler.