What's the point of music? Ask Peter Gabriel

[cloughie]

What about Johnny Nash?

He obviously sorted it because he can see clearly now!

As for the point of music, I don't think that I really at, my time of life, when music has always been important to me, wish to start navel gazing on the subject. Peter Gabriel has added adequately to the rich mix of music available to us. The questions I ask are: What has Alain de Botton ever done that is useful and What is the point of Alain de Botton?

[rauschwerk]

Such a narrowly focused article. What about the point of music for performers? And what about this, from a greater man than Mr de Botton?:

'Making music is an ethical activity: it requires you to to work with other people for an idealistic result. And it's an adjunct to civilised existence, because it promotes a vision of order, of how it's possible to co-operate.' (Colin Davis, 1927-2013)

[Beef Oven!]

He obviously sorted it because he can see clearly now!

Johnny was having an affair with Deirdre and when Lorraine his wife found out, she left him.

He seemed happy when he sang '' I can see Deirdre now Lorraine has gone......"

[Richard Barrett]

'Making music is an ethical activity: it requires you to to work with other people for an idealistic result. And it's an adjunct to civilised existence, because it promotes a vision of order, of how it's possible to co-operate.' (Colin Davis, 1927-2013)

Another highly Eurocentric/Enlightenment-derived formulation, don't you think? As S_A pointed out, these things change over the course of time. I think that many of the problems with musical appreciation that turn up and are mulled over on this forum might be ultimately reducible to assuming that Enlightenment ideas ("an ethical activity... a vision of order" being a particularly clear example) about the nature and function of art still have as much relevance as they did a hundred and more years ago (when most of the music under discussion was created), when so many things have changed, including but not limited to an increasing awareness of historical and geographical relativity in culture.

It's instructive to look at how music is and has been viewed in other cultures, even or especially in those where it obviously isn't seen as an activity separate from the rest of everyday life. Cornelius Cardew has this beautiful aphorism: "... the musical and the real worlds are one. Musicality is a dimension of perfectly ordinary reality. The musician's pursuit is to recognize the musical composition of the world." (my emphasis)

[MrGongGong]

It's instructive to look at how music is and has been viewed in other cultures, even or especially in those where it obviously isn't seen as an activity separate from the rest of everyday life.

Exactly (Chris Small being another good place to start IMV)
which might be a good reason to ask Peter Gabriel

Though he, as much as anyone, (but maybe not as much as Scrote) is as capable of talking b*llocks as the rest of us

[Richard Barrett]

(Chris Small being another good place to start IMV)

Yes indeed. But on the strength of the article, Gabriel doesn't have much to say about that bigger picture. Maybe it's just that Alain de Botton isn't interested in it.

Very few people generate as much vacuous rubbish about music as Scruton. I quote more or less at random: "Conservatives hold on to things not only because they are attached to them, but also because they do not see the sense in radical change, until someone has told them what it will lead to." That would exclude about 90% of the music they think of as so valuable because somehow they are unable or unwilling to see how unconservative it was.

Not to mention of course that if you take that idea to its logical conclusion, we'd have to go back at least to the Neanderthals before a real conservative would be satisfied, the only problem being that nobody would be able to say "let's not invent language, we have no idea what it might lead to!!!"

[MrGongGong]

Yes indeed. But on the strength of the article, Gabriel doesn't have much to say about that bigger picture. Maybe it's just that Alain de Botton isn't interested in it.

Quite possibly.
When i've heard PG interviewed and talking about non-western musics what I hear is someone who is passionately interested in the music of the world AND keen to create opportunities for musicians from all over the world to perform and get their music heard. Whilst i'm not so keen these days on his own music I find much to admire in this curiosity.

[cloughie]

Johnny was having an affair with Deirdre and when Lorraine his wife found out, she left him.

He seemed happy when he sang '' I can see Deirdre now Lorraine has gone......"

So that's why he could see obstacles in his way!

[cloughie]

Yes indeed. But on the strength of the article, Gabriel doesn't have much to say about that bigger picture. Maybe it's just that Alain de Botton isn't interested in it.

Very few people generate as much vacuous rubbish about music as Scruton. I quote more or less at random: "Conservatives hold on to things not only because they are attached to them, but also because they do not see the sense in radical change, until someone has told them what it will lead to." That would exclude about 90% of the music they think of as so valuable because somehow they are unable or unwilling to see how unconservative it was.

Not to mention of course that if you take that idea to its logical conclusion, we'd have to go back at least to the Neanderthals before a real conservative would be satisfied, the only problem being that nobody would be able to say "let's not invent language, we have no idea what it might lead to!!!"

They might have said perhaps said let's invent language but let's stick to one - how many of the World's problems are greater because of misunderstandings and language barriers and how many crackpot ideas have we taken on from the USA because it was written in "English" when there might have been better ideas from Europe but needed translation so accessibility was less.

[CallMePaul]

What's the best malt whisky?

Laphroiag Quarter Cask

[P. G. Tipps]

I thought we might get somewhere with this, but it seems we've elected to go for the platitudes instead (thanks to Scruton and Bernstein)...

Where exactly did you expect to go with this, one might feel bound to ask ... ?

Scruton and Bernstein (and no doubt countless others) have summed it up very well with the latter being rather more explicit than the former about the inherent 'mystery' of music, though both are saying much the same thing.

I have no idea why a series of sounds can stir emotions in us.

I'm with Lenny ... the 'mystery' of music only adds to an already great and sometimes spiritual experience for me and others. So that is the point.

Question answered!

[vinteuil]

.

Question answered!

Can you explain what you understand by the word 'natural' in the following sentence:

'Music addresses us from beyond the borders of the natural world' ?

[MrGongGong]

Can you explain what you understand by the word 'natural' in the following sentence:

'Music addresses us from beyond the borders of the natural world' ?

NO no no no please, not again

[vinteuil]

NO no no no please, not again

... I just wanted to find out whether the sentence had any meaning at all..

[MrGongGong]

... I just wanted to find out whether the sentence had any meaning at all..

It's b*llocks IMV but contains a trigger word that will set someone off