"Classical Music" and other names for it

[jean]

My own point was...

Entirely irrelevant in the context where you made it, which had moved on to consider whose business any educational shortcomings on the part of those we vote for might be.

(That was mine.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

why do the more prestigious private schools value classical music?

Don't get me going on this one. I was educated at an independent school that was good for only two things: music and swimming.

When I became a secondary school music teacher, I saw no reason to do other than strive to achieve similar standards. I believe I succeeded, with 3 very large choirs, 2 orchestras and many other groups. When the head teacher suggested I might follow the example of his son's school and introduce Queen, I just looked at him and said "What's the music like at your son's school?" He never mentioned it again.

[Daniel]

Concerning the picture of musical education, that's depressing. I initially thought the NPME and the Musical Education hubs sounded encouraging, but it appears the touch paper has largely fizzled out without launching any rockets. A cynic might I suppose wonder if that had been the Whitehall mandarins expectation all along. Music hubs could work well, but according to James Rhodes they are inconsistently administered. Much in line with what people such as Cockney Sparrow have been saying here about music provision being left up to dynamic individuals, James Rhodes being one such.

As far as the 'Classical' tag is concerned, if it were a significant barrier to a wider appreciation of the music, and large numbers of people were being deterred, I wouldn't hesitate in finding an alternative. Composed and Semi-Composed music doesn't seem the worst option I've heard - all options are going to be unwieldy in some way - though I wish author of the OP article hadn't seemed quite so sniffy about the latter.

I do think subliminally or otherwise, many people still associate classical music with its church and courtly origins, in contrast to rock music etc as coming from the people. And maybe the word Classical does exude a powerful stench for some, acting like a snooty doorman, or a No Riff Raff sign, or equally a wild misrepresentation of what it is within for those who stand outside. But I wonder on its own how powerful a discouragement it is. Maybe Classical music just isn't for some people because they don't like it, or just not most of it. Would rebranding Rap music as Allotment music increase its older listenership? But maybe somebody will emerge in a burst of Schenkerian glory, like Harry Beck with the tube map, and present it all far more intelligibly, with a name that doesn't evoke Joyce Grenfell, or her current equivalent, telling you to sit up straight and listen politely. I'd support them if they did, but to my eyes that moment hasn't yet arrived.

[MrGongGong]

Concerning the picture of musical education, that's depressing. I initially thought the NPME and the Musical Education hubs sounded encouraging, but it appears the touch paper has largely fizzled out without launching any rockets. A cynic might I suppose wonder if that had been the Whitehall mandarins expectation all along. Music hubs could work well, but according to James Rhodes they are inconsistently administered. Much in line with what people such as Cockney Sparrow have been saying here about music provision being left up to dynamic individuals, James Rhodes being one such.
.

Hummmm

I admire mr Rhodes's enthusiasm but ..........

The NPME doesn't contain the word "improvise" ... says it all really without going into detail

[P. G. Tipps]

Entirely irrelevant in the context where you made it, which had moved on to consider whose business any educational shortcomings on the part of those we vote for might be.

(That was mine.)

I wasn't at all concerned with your point but the relevant point to which I responded!

[Richard Barrett]

I admire mr Rhodes's enthusiasm but ..........

From Daniel's link:

With his trainers, skinny jeans and trendy glasses, Rhodes, 39, is not your typical classical pianist. He refuses to perform in a suit, plays at unconventional venues, such as London's Roundhouse and the 100 Club, chats to the audience about the repertoire in between pieces, and refers to Rachmaninov, Chopin and Liszt as "the original rock stars"

(yawn) - yet again hoping that treating this music as a fashion accessory and sort of like pop music somehow makes it more appealing. IT'S DIFFERENT. The emphasis ought to be more on the fact that there are so many DIFFERENT musics and that there's much joy and fulfilment in being in a position to appreciate what's there in any of them, or at least more than one.

(I once found a cockroach in my beer at the 100 Club, that's how unconventional a venue it is.)

[Mary Chambers]

There must be lots and lots of ex-choral scholars around, all competent singers, very few of them making a living out of singing, let alone reaching no. 1 in any sort of ranking. He's there because he's already in the public eye for entirely extra-musical reasons.

I do realise that.

[MrGongGong]

(yawn) - yet again hoping that treating this music as a fashion accessory and sort of like pop music somehow makes it more appealing. IT'S DIFFERENT. The emphasis ought to be more on the fact that there are so many DIFFERENT musics and that there's much joy and fulfilment in being in a position to appreciate what's there in any of them, or at least more than one.

(I once found a cockroach in my beer at the 100 Club, that's how unconventional a venue it is.)

I went to see Orfeo at the Roundhouse last year, that's what I call "unconventional"

The problem with mr Rhodes is that he has identified something that he feels passionate about, which is great, but the car crash TV series did more harm than good IMV

I guess whoever wrote that nonsense hasn't met many pianists...... I once saw Lang Lang in a nightclub in Switzerland and he was dancing

[jean]

I wasn't at all concerned with your point but the relevant point to which I responded!

Which was, as it happens, mine:

If we're electing them to govern us, their lack of historical awareness is very much our business, I should think.

No mention of blame there, you see?

If you wished to respond to a different post, perhaps that's the post you should have quoted, instead of mine.

Here's the conversation in full:

They don't seem to have been taught anything about history either
SO what exactly DID the money get spent on?

Surely if it's Daddy's & Mummy's money, and not ours, that's really none of our business, Mr GG ...?

If we're electing them to govern us, their lack of historical awareness is very much our business, I should think.

Rounded off by the supreme non sequitur:

In that case clearly 'we're' to blame and not 'them' ?

[jean]

...(yawn) - yet again hoping that treating this music as a fashion accessory and sort of like pop music somehow makes it more appealing...

I didn't know anything about him until he ws mentioned on this thread, but I found this:

...The people behind the CBAs (an assorted cabal of radio bosses, label heads, PR pundits, agents, promotors, journalists) have, for many years now, diluted and butchered classical music, throwing it into a blender alongside cross-over schmaltz, movie soundtracks, pop-opera and greed, and tried to convince us that the gloopy, sick-making result is "classical music"...

His heart does seem to be in the right place.

[jean]

Would rebranding Rap music as Allotment music increase its older listenership?

(But note: there are lots of younger allotment holders these days!)

[P. G. Tipps]

Which was, as it happens, mine:


No mention of blame there, you see?

If you wished to respond to a different post, perhaps that's the post you should have quoted, instead of mine.

Here's the conversation in full:


Rounded off by the supreme non sequitur:

Hardly ... it simply rounded off my own point, even if you obviously failed to spot any connection with the earlier point made by Mr Barrett and my response to that! Mr Barrett clearly saw the connection and you managed to chide him as well. Whatever we think is the point, mine seems to have irritated you somewhat?

But do let's move on, by all means!

[Richard Barrett]

His heart does seem to be in the right place.

You're right. I must have been mistaking the blurb for the person. His account of the Classical Brit awards reminds me of an event in Vienna called (note the trendy orthography) classical:NEXT, a trade fair for music publishers and promoters to which I was somehow invited a couple of years back to talk about the position of "the composer" in the current state of the classical music "industry", and in which I found myself answering a question from the floor with "it's not a question of finding a marketing solution, since marketing is actually the problem!" At which I felt pleased with myself for about half a second before realising that almost everyone in the room was thinking "nothing to see here then, what's for lunch?"

[Serial_Apologist]

You're right. I must have been mistaking the blurb for the person. His account of the Classical Brit awards reminds me of an event in Vienna called (note the trendy orthography) classical:NEXT, a trade fair for music publishers and promoters to which I was somehow invited a couple of years back to talk about the position of "the composer" in the current state of the classical music "industry", and in which I found myself answering a question from the floor with "it's not a question of finding a marketing solution, since marketing is actually the problem!" At which I felt pleased with myself for about half a second before realising that almost everyone in the room was thinking "nothing to see here then, what's for lunch?"

[P. G. Tipps]

We have certainly (if somewhat predictably) 'moved on' quite a bit from the original subject matter ...

"Moving off" back to that, I do feel, for all its undoubted imperfection, Classical Music is not too bad a term really, all things considered.

It has an air of deserved superiority about it as, compared to other recognised forms of music, it requires greater concentration and study to appreciate. If it it is considered 'elitist' that is only right as it is an elite art. Of course, like most other things in life, there will be the odd 'grey area' along the way. If not, we would have nothing to discuss which would be simply awful.

'Composed Music' is a quite dreadful term and itself can have two distinct meanings. Its only attribute, as far as I can see, is that it undoubtedly sounds infinitely preferable to 'Decomposed Music'.

In my view there should be no compromise with the current rampant philistinism in our society. If anyone really wants to make the effort and learn more about classical music there is little stopping them. If they don't, that's fine. Their loss, not ours, and that includes Prime Ministers.

Let those wretched philistines wallow in the mud entirely of their own making!