"Classical Music" and other names for it

[Cockney Sparrow]

Recently I have been looking (online) at schools for the next stage of my grandchildren's primary education - one is about to start school, one about to move from infants to juniors. I have been very struck by how large a part 'classical' music plays in the independent schools - especially instrumental tuition - and how rarely it is mentioned in the state schools. I find this worrying. I am talking about London.

Mrs CS is a dedicated, very dedicated and enterprising primary music teacher, always in the state sector. You may find a school that tolerates, or even supports, a dedicated music teacher (i.e. - willing to put in the effort to foster music through teaching instruments (in the face of "we can't have children going out of their maths/science/English / XXXXXX (fill in) lesson) and groups such as guitars, choirs, bands orchestras etc. So, rather more than a person who does "some music" and ticks the boxes for Ofsted (same chance of winning the lottery for Ofsted to be interested in music). Many a school has devolved the teaching of music to the class teachers - so I would suggest the ticks in the boxes for music often stretch the actualite of what they have done with their children.

To any parents who have found a state school which has active music making and teaching, I would say, please voice your appreciation and support to the headteacher and the governors (and the music teacher). The perennial challenge is the arrival of a new head. Apart from their many responsibilities, their main fixation is Ofsted/league tables/ the inquisition visits of "advisors" etc and unless they in some way value music, it will be a struggle, all over again, for the teacher to a) be left alone to carry on b) not be disregarded, seen as an inconvenience and for music to be marginalised. Its got progressively worse over the years with the mechanisation of teaching, monitoring, control from above. Unless parents monitor this and if necessary challenge the marginalisation of music, in all probability it will happen......

What makes it worthwhile is bringing the joy of music to a cross section of society and all of the proven benefits (often referred to from research) to the children who delight in what they do, and can tell quality from the rest. (And the delight with LSO/LPORPO/ etc children's concerts are heartening to witness...)

We conclude that Classical** music is seen as elitist by some, and it has progressively become the case that most of the population have no real experience of it - not even the former basic level of familiarity with what we call music; so they don't know more than 2 or 3 carols, they can't sing a hymn at a wedding or funeral. (I've taken no time to read up about the Julian Lloyd Webber etc movement, but I should because its sorely needed).

And yes, isn't it interesting that most independent schools see it as necessary to have some decent music provision, because their parents value it, either because they see it as something to which they aspire, or because they well know its value. So, for the rest of state schools, its nearly always the middle class parents ferrying their children to music schools, teachers and youth orchestras, choirs etc. As we did when we chose a primary school we understood to have decent music to find that the music teacher left soon after, and the teachers opposed instrumental teaching because it disrupted lessons......

I haven't exhaustively looked at this blog (and its forerunner) but it conveys some view of the music teacher's world (in outer London) :

https://primarymusicmatters.wordpress.com/

http://primarymusicmatters.blogspot.co.uk/

**I do wish we had a better term to express the non rock, non pop, non roots, non jazz, non world, non etc etc music. "Composed music" seems good enough to me to be going on with.....

[teamsaint]

Classical music does play a huge part in the life of many independent schools,especially the more prestigious ones.

These schools know the value of a well stocked CV when applying for university, or the value of music scholarships both at public school and University.

[Richard Barrett]

These schools know the value of a well stocked CV

Surely the reason is more to do with having the resources to support music education, at a level that state schools can't afford, being already underfunded, overworked and subject to all kinds of stress from all sides?

[Barbirollians]

Surely the reason is more to do with having the resources to support music education, at a level that state schools can't afford, being already underfunded, overworked and subject to all kinds of stress from all sides?

Exactly !

[ahinton]

Surely the reason is more to do with having the resources to support music education, at a level that state schools can't afford, being already underfunded, overworked and subject to all kinds of stress from all sides?

Of course - and I fear that this situation is in all too many instances worse today than it was when I attended a state school (longer ago than I care to recall!) at which learning a musical instrument was not merely recommended but actually compulsory for a minimum of one term for all entrants - and instruments (other than pianos, of course!) were provided by the school. OK, I accept that this was pretty exceptional even in those days, but not entirely impossible.

[Mary Chambers]

My son had trombone lessons at his state primary in the early 1980s. The instrument and the lessons were provided free, but the pupils were selected - not everyone had the opportunity.

Even if state schools haven't the funds to do this now, it doesn't cost much to listen to music and learn about it, does it? Singing is free - only a basic accompaniment, if that, is needed for many good songs. Perhaps there isn't enough time allowed for such things now. Plus, of course, it's seen as elitist, and what can be worse than that? I think a lot of it is attitude.

[MrGongGong]

Surely the reason is more to do with having the resources to support music education, at a level that state schools can't afford, being already underfunded, overworked and subject to all kinds of stress from all sides?

Sadly very few folks (and this includes many involved in music education) have been prepared to make a fuss about this. It's always easier not to rock the boat, not to make a noise, to go along with nonsense like the NPME. Only when folks are prepared to have a real discussion about what music education is for and what it could be will there be any change IMV.
There's lots of interesting research out there but if those in charge don't value it then we really are stuffed.

[teamsaint]

Surely the reason is more to do with having the resources to support music education, at a level that state schools can't afford, being already underfunded, overworked and subject to all kinds of stress from all sides?

I don't think we are disagreeing on this. The private sector , or at least substantial parts of it, have the resources to support musical activity at a much higher level, as a generalisation.
the state sector is indeed very hard pressed on resource, and with staff under huge pressures.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sadly very few folks (and this includes many involved in music education) have been prepared to make a fuss about this.

- and, of course, it's not just Music: all the creative/imaginative/"hobby" subjects have suffered - Music, Art, Drama, Dance. It's not the Schools' fault - it's the fact that not enough people think it's important to bully MPs about.

[Richard Barrett]

Only when folks are prepared to have a real discussion about what music education is for and what it could be will there be any change IMV.
There's lots of interesting research out there but if those in charge don't value it then we really are stuffed.

Well no, they clearly don't, because they're fairly obviously committed to a view of society which is relaxed about confining things like music education to the moneyed classes. All the research I've come across supports the idea that practical involvement in music is a highly beneficial activity for developing all kinds of mental and physical faculties, but (goes the story) what's the point in spending money developing the mental and physical faculties of the plebs when all they'll be doing with their lives is telesales or stacking shelves, if they're lucky? Ahem, getting a bit political there. But really. If you voted Tory this is what you voted for.

[P. G. Tipps]

Well no, they clearly don't, because they're fairly obviously committed to a view of society which is relaxed about confining things like music education to the moneyed classes. All the research I've come across supports the idea that practical involvement in music is a highly beneficial activity for developing all kinds of mental and physical faculties, but (goes the story) what's the point in spending money developing the mental and physical faculties of the plebs when all they'll be doing with their lives is telesales or stacking shelves, if they're lucky? Ahem, getting a bit political there. But really. If you voted Tory this is what you voted for.

No I didn't.

I, and not you, know exactly what I voted for, however reluctantly.

[MrGongGong]

No I didn't.

Hey Scotty, it's NOT all about you

[P. G. Tipps]

Back on topic and minus complete irrelevancies like politics and 'Scotty', if everybody understands what is meant by Classical Music, even if nobody can adequately define it, then surely that is all that really matters?

I have never come across anyone yet who doesn't understand the term whether they like Classical Music or loathe Classical Music.

Rather the real problem with language is when people end up talking about different things when some suddenly use their own preferred term instead of the previously universally-understood meaning of a term or word.

[ahinton]

Well no, they clearly don't, because they're fairly obviously committed to a view of society which is relaxed about confining things like music education to the moneyed classes. All the research I've come across supports the idea that practical involvement in music is a highly beneficial activity for developing all kinds of mental and physical faculties, but (goes the story) what's the point in spending money developing the mental and physical faculties of the plebs when all they'll be doing with their lives is telesales or stacking shelves, if they're lucky? Ahem, getting a bit political there. But really. If you voted Tory this is what you voted for.

If this is indeed the general view held by our Political Masters in all parties (and I have no research to suggest otherwise so I'm not arguing otherwise), I can only say that they have no business to have been voted into office. My own MP certainly does not take such a view and he's a Tory (but yes, OK, he's only one). It's quite incredibly short-sighted and a blight upon society as a whole.

[MrGongGong]

I have never come across anyone yet who doesn't understand the term whether they like Classical Music or loathe Classical Music.

Maybe you should get out more?

Rather the real problem with language is when people end up talking about different things when some suddenly use their own preferred term instead of the previously universally-understood meaning of a term or word.

Despite what is often said (and quoted), MUSIC isn't a "universal language" nor is the meaning of the word "Music" understood to mean the same thing.
So, in spite of your suggestion that the word "Classical" is "universally-understood" I would suggest the opposite is true.

It's not necessarily a "problem" with language (and i'm sure the many linguistically knowledgeable folks could put it much better than I can).
Haven't you listened to "Stairway" recently ?