Why were symphonies unfashionable in the 1850s and 1860s?

[Lat-Literal]

Well, looked at one way, it sort-of was, in that the first version of the D minor "Fourth" was written before the Rhenish, even though the revisions to that work were made after.

[cloughie]

The work you did was extraordinary. Gade doesn't seem to feature very often these days. I don't mind Berwald. Ditto Mendelssohn and Schumann.

Which ones would you recommend to someone who prefers the symphonies from the late 1800s onwards? Light touch preferred to bang and crash.

Can't say that Onslow has hit my radar - any good?

[Lat-Literal]

Can't say that Onslow has hit my radar - any good?

One for Suffy, Roehre etc. He was French and Wagner didn't like him.

It sounds very promising but I am currently listening to Saint-Saens.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Onslow was better known for his chamber music, the symphonies are by no means negligible and not unattractive, though not first rank. Of the symphonies from the period not in the repertoire, the two Burgmuller, the Staehle and the Kalliwoda 3 & 4 in particular really stand out. The former two composers may have ranked among the greats if they hadn't died so young, and Schumann clearly knew Kalliwoda's symphonies as the influence on him is apparent. The Potter symphonies too are worth a listen, Beethoven is the clear model, and they have plenty of energy and even in places seem to anticipate Bruckner. Perhaps if Potter was British he'd be better known. The Lindblad 1st is a lovely work and the Czerny symphonies impressed me, as do other of his works, far more than merely a composer of piano technique studies.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Plenty of Onslow on youTube - once you get past the clips from Keeping Up Appearances.

[cloughie]

Plenty of Onslow on youTube - once you get past the clips from Keeping Up Appearances.

There by the bucketful, ferney?
Joking apart - another question around 1850s - Is Antar a symphony or a symphonic suite and what makes one one and not the other?

[richardfinegold]

As others have pointed out, it wasn't that the Symphony dissapeared in that interval. There was a dearth of works that failed to make a lasting impression. Why that should be the case would be a more interesting point of discussion.

[Pabmusic]

There are many symphonists - some prolific - who span this period. Try the Bohemian Johann Joseph Abert, whose first four are from the 1850s and 60s (he wrote 7):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sag_F7pONDc

Joachim Raff - 11 symphonies (his first lasts about 70 minutes!)
Anton Rubinstein - 6
George Macfarren - 9
William Sterndale Bennett - 2
Cipriani Potter - 9
Arthur Sullivan - 1
Johann Svendsen - 2
Charles Gounod - 2
Bedrich Smetana - 1
George Bristow - 1
Louis Moreau Gottschalk - 2

(I'm getting tired...)

Anyone for a set of all the Cypriani Potter symphonies?

[Roehre]

There are many symphonists - some prolific - who span this period. Try the Bohemian Johann Joseph Abert, whose first four are from the 1850s and 60s (he wrote 7):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sag_F7pONDc

Joachim Raff - 11 symphonies (his first lasts about 70 minutes!)
Anton Rubinstein - 6
George Macfarren - 9
William Sterndale Bennett - 2
Cipriani Potter - 9
Arthur Sullivan - 1
Johann Svendsen - 2
Charles Gounod - 2
Bedrich Smetana - 1
George Bristow - 1
Louis Moreau Gottschalk - 2

(I'm getting tired...)

Anyone for a set of all the Cypriani Potter symphonies?

I am, and I'm sure Suffolkcoastal too

Btw, Gounod composed 3 symphonies, all two-and-a-half of them recently recorded.

[Pabmusic]

...Btw, Gounod composed 3 symphonies, all two-and-a-half of them recently recorded.

Great - there's always something new to discover, isn't there?

[Jonathan]

I thought Sterndale-Bennett only wrote 1 symphony (Op.43, IIRC) - does anyone know anything else about the other one?

I'm sure there are loads more but of special mention is Raff's 5th which is splendid!
Not sure where Rufinatscha fits in with this topic but he's a possible (his 3rd is an amazing work)...

To address the main question of the thread, the Symphonic Poem didn't really seem to take off very quickly following Liszt's creation of the form. Saint-Saens took it up quite readily (Danse macabre, Le Rouet d'Omphale, Phaeton and La Jeunesse de Hercule), as did Bulow (Nirwana) but i think it was slow to catch on, at least as far as I can tell!

[Suffolkcoastal]

Both Sterndale-Bennett symphonies are in G minor, which does cause confusion. The op43 was composed around 1867, though stylistically it inhabits the musical world of 20 years earlier. The earlier G minor Symphony is a student work composed when he was 19. In many ways it is the more impressive, the Beethovenian manner of his teacher Cipriani Potter is apparent as is an awareness of Mendelssohn's earlier works. It is a pity that he didn't follow it with more symphonies during the 1830s & 40s.

[EdgeleyRob]

There are many symphonists - some prolific - who span this period. Try the Bohemian Johann Joseph Abert, whose first four are from the 1850s and 60s (he wrote 7):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sag_F7pONDc

Joachim Raff - 11 symphonies (his first lasts about 70 minutes!)
Anton Rubinstein - 6
George Macfarren - 9
William Sterndale Bennett - 2
Cipriani Potter - 9
Arthur Sullivan - 1
Johann Svendsen - 2
Charles Gounod - 2
Bedrich Smetana - 1
George Bristow - 1
Louis Moreau Gottschalk - 2

(I'm getting tired...)

Anyone for a set of all the Cypriani Potter symphonies?

Yep,I'll have some of that please !