Shoot your idols - Adele at the Beeb

[P. G. Tipps]

I was waiting for a movie to start and was channel flicking when I encountered Amy Winehouse and her band for the first time. I'd heard the name but knew nothing about her. Well, I forgot the movie and watched her show. I thought she was wonderful. I then bought her album and listened to it many times. A terrific performer and songwriter, imho.

I was genuinely sad when she died. So much talent taken so young. I think she could have developed into something very special. Alas, it was not to be.

I have no feelings about Adele either way except that her album is the first thing I see when I walk into Tesco. It's almost as if you have been told what to listen to by the sharp marketing men. I'm sure if a classical album was promoted like this then it would sell a lot of copies too!

Same here ... I came across Amy Winehouse "by accident" on TV and was stunned by the quality of her voice. Some have compared her to Ella Fitzgerald and her jazz/blues singing-voice was undoubtedly in that sort of league.

I, too, have not been particularly impressed with what I've heard from Adele but maybe it's unfair to compare her to A. W. as the latter was streets ahead of any of the competition in her genre, imv. There are a lot worse than Adele around!

If Adele can make a lucrative career for herself by simply being what she is, good luck to the girl ...

[Lat-Literal]

It didn't expect that I would be the only person on this board to be underwhelmed but there is some really good points that I hadn't considered. Several years ago a couple of colleagues where I worked suggest that her second album was some kind of masterpiece and were lauding her vocal skills. One of these individuals was a self-taught guitarist who had played in a number of bands around the Portsmouth area since the 1970s and was clearly switched on by pop groups where he considered there to be a degree of musicianship. One band he loved was The Mumfords who I have never heard but he was equally enthused by Adele.

I think that there is a kind of marketing ploy here insofar that record companies seem to label ugly / over-weight girl singers as being more serious than those who seem to rely on their looks for commercial success. I can see their point as a lot of the current crop of girls singers are clearly easier on the eye than they are on the eye. It is a kind of reverse sexism which applies that although she may look like the Pilsbury dough girl, Adele is a "genuine" artist. This is clearly ridiculous and insulting to both the artist and the listener. But there is a novelty value with artists like Winehouse and Adele insofar they seem individualistic even though what they ae producing is pretty anodyne.

The weird thing with this is that , as a jazz fan, I think that this is some kind of "golden age" for vocalists with a wide range of styles that vary from the classic jazz voice of someone like Dianne Reeves or Cassandra Wilson , the more adventurous Gretchen Parlato or even the more fusion-inclined yet savvy Esperanza Spalding. No one makes a judgement on their music because of their looks. From a technical point of view, Adele may have a good voice but she is not really in the same category as Dianne Reeves or someone like Youn Sun Nah who both make Adele look like an amateur. If you want genuine vocal talent, for me jazz is where it is happening at this point in time.

The other odd thing about this thread was the negative remark made about Witney Houston in one post. Granted that her music was commercial, I have been listening to quite a bit of her output on Youtube of late and am convinced she was a brilliant and talented artist. Adele isn't fit to lick her boots. It is strange that a lot of soul can end up being mundane whereas some someone like Whitney Houston probably marked a high point in recent popular music.

The Whitney was mine and I always have a few qualms when mentioning her as an example given her personal circumstances. I suppose it would be less lazy and more apposite to talk about Mariah Carey etc etc but to be blunt I really closed my ears to all of that stuff. I just couldn't stomach it. On Mumford and Sons, two words - "very" and "manufactured"!

Just as a footnote, before Duffy was Duffy she was unknown Aimee Duffy and she recorded things most people have never heard. I went searching! She would hate both these comments, given reasonably serious collaborations with Bernard Butler of Suede. But I have always seen her as the "Cilla" figure in this area with the pluses and minuses that entails. I also think she would if she reverted to her original way with words help the United Kingdom win Eurovision. As I say, she would hate the very idea of it. She is very attractive. I'm not sure that she has a great voice. But my answer in terms of that madcap, ridiculous competition and its increasing importance to national esteem is "Go Welsh"!

Aimee Duffy - Hedfan Angel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leiPemYDg-8

[verismissimo]

Amy Winehouse and Tony Bennett singing 'Body and Soul'. Wonderful song. George Shearing-style accompaniment.

Quite special. Only 15 million viewings on Youtube. Seen it? Her last recording, I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OFMkCeP6ok

[P. G. Tipps]

Amy Winehouse and Tony Bennett singing 'Body and Soul'. Wonderful song. George Shearing-style accompaniment.

Quite special. Only 15 million viewings on Youtube. Seen it? Her last recording, I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OFMkCeP6ok

Yes, special indeed, verismissimo ...

The following clip of her in a taxi when she was 18 gives one some idea of how she deteriorated physically and no doubt mentally as well in her "later" years.

It is quite shocking to see how Amy looked before drugs destroyed her, a very beautiful girl as well as a great talent.

It is almost too painful to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5paUeIvU6AI

[Lat-Literal]

It's not perfect. It's not fully developed. It's a tad strident. But it is natural, it is learned and it clearly isn't simply pastiche. It's a bit risky.

It's possible to hear how and where it should have changed - a few of those edges, more precision - but it was heading somewhere special:

Amy Winehouse - Someone To Watch Over Me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RqH6rPEK-A

I reckon this is a soul performance - it has the mixture of certainty and control, the last word, no irony, it's a very sophisticated fade-out:

Amy Winehouse - Love Is A Losing Game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMO5Ko_77Hk

[Serial_Apologist]

The nearest parallel to Amy from the past I can think of is Julie Tippett, who back in the 1960s was arguably the greatest white Soul singer this country ever produced. I have played stuff she sang with Brian Auger's Trinity to black women who have not believed me when I insisted Julie is white. Like Amy and Adele from a working class background, Julie had the fortune and strength of personality to get out from under the pop music business the moment they decided to wig her out, parade her to the paparazzi and make her "the Face" of '68 and a successor to Twiggy; she jacked out of rock music, married the jazz pianist Keith Tippett and decided on finding what she called her own "ethnic voice" through free jazz and free improvisation. That is where you will usually find her today, but occasionally she (they) cover more straight ahead stuff, for which Julie often writes her own lyrics, as on the clip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LDYSt0duNo

Had Amy stuck with her jazz associates, who loved her in the only meaningful sense and were supportive, I'm convinced she wouild still be alive, as I said to her one-time bass player, who also bass played for Jamie Cullum and is very good (I can't right now remember his name!), and he bore out what I am saying. Those stills really are of Julie as she looks today at age 68, and may I say clearly demonstrate the advantages of putting creative fulfilment before money - they both live in a tiny lodge on the edge of a country estate in Gloucestershire. Keith looks a bit grizzled these days, but Julie has hardly changed at all in appearance since I first got to meet her in 1984.

[Lat-Literal]

The nearest parapplel to Amy from the past I can think of is Julie Tippett, who back in the 1960s was arguably the greatest white Soul singer this country ever produced. I have played stuff she sang with Brian Auger's Trinity to black women who have not believed me when I insisted Julie is white. Like Amay and Adele from a working class background, Julie had the fortune and strength of personality to get out from under the pop music business the moment they decided to wig her out, parade her to the paparazzi and make her "the Face" of '68 and a successor to Twiggy; she jacked out of rock music, married the jazz pianist Keith Tippett and decided on finding what she called her own "ethnic voice" through free jazz and free improvisation. That is where you will usually find her today, but occasionally she (they) cover more straight ahead stuff, for which Julie often writes her own lyrics, as on the clip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LDYSt0duNo

Had Amy stuck with her jazz associates, who loved her in the only meaningful sense and were supportive, I'm convinced she wouild still be alive, as I said to her one-time bass player, who also bass played for Jamie Cullum and is very good (I can't right now remember his name!), and he bore out what I am saying. Those stills really are of Julie as she looks today at age 68, and may I say clearly demonstrate the advantages of putting creative fulfilment before money - they both live in a tiny lodge on the edge of a country estate in Gloucestershire. Keith looks a bit grizzled these days, but Julie has hardly changed at all in appearance.

I was hoping you would comment. Did they do a version of "This Wheel's On Fire"? Apologies if I am wrong!

(I agree with your comments)

Actually, they did. She was Driscoll, wasn't she. I've just twigged. I like the link a lot.

Not being unkind to her but I haven't even viewed the latest from Adele tbh.

We have been here in other eras too. I did see Carmel at Ronnie Scott's - ok - but I wasn't wholly convinced.

Carmel - Bad Day - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdohz3yTWWc

The amazingly slimmed down Alison Moyet - who I like and good for her - has moved more towards cabaret:

Alison Moyet - Devil - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7yonCPd5_U

[ahinton]

Isn't Adele what Bristolians do to words ending in a vowel?

[french frank]

Isn't Adele what Bristolians do to words ending in a vowel?

No'l …

[ahinton]

No'l …

That's in the south of Bristol, n'est-ce pas?

Anyway, my all time favourite example of this practice came from a certain Bristolian violinist named Jones and mentioned en passant in the New World snob thread; it is the musical term pocol menol mossol.

[Barbirollians]

Somehow, however, I doubt that you intended that double negative!

Your doubt is well founded !

[Barbirollians]

I think it is very unfair to compare her to Amy Winehouse ( a great artist Back to Black is one of the best popular music albums of all time Amy W had the talent of Ella or Billie but her love of the latter was horribly mirrored in her tragic life only at an even younger age ) .

To compare the two is liking criticising Boyce for not being Bach, Stanford for not being Brahms or a chestnut mushroom for not being a truffle.

[ahinton]

I think it is very unfair to compare her to Amy Winehouse ( a great artist Back to Black is one of the best popular music albums of all time Amy W had the talent of Ella or Billie but her love of the latter was horribly mirrored in her tragic life only at an even younger age ) .

To compare the two is liking criticising Boyce for not being Bach, Stanford for not being Brahms or a chestnut mushroom for not being a truffle.

Indeed - as I have already suggested - but that doesn't mean that the differences don't reveal themselves to be as great as they are...

[cloughie]

You got to meet Julie Driscoll - wow - you lucky lucky man. I saw her late 60s just after she had changed from the Afro to her elfin look - a stunningly attractive woman with a beautiful voice and delivery and Brian Auger as accompanist. The guitarist with the Trinity was I think Gary Boyle, whose playing on the Open album is very good. Julie's interpretation of Donovan's Season of the Witch is one of the best non-classical tracks ever. Other British singers of that era who I would rate much higher than Adele, had she been around then are Dusty Springfield, her backing singers Lesley Duncan and Madeleine Bell, Kiki Dee, Elkie Brooks and Sandy Denny.
Mention above of Dianne Reeves and Cassandra Wilson also show the chalk and cheese around when it comes to good singers - I would add Jacqueline Dankworth, Cheryl Bentyne, Jane Monheit, Madeleine Peyroux and Diana Krall amongst others to the list and ask the question as to why more of their tracks are not played on mainstream Radio 2.

[vinteuil]

You got to meet Julie Driscoll - wow - you lucky lucky man. I saw her late 60s just after she had changed from the Afro to her elfin look - a stunningly attractive woman .

... o Julie Driscoll! Aches from the past!! My first serious crush, circa 1966 - me aet: 14.... :swoon emoticon: