The Tyranny of Pop Music

[jean]

Of course it is possible but an ordinary everyday understanding of such matter is infinitely different from individual to individual.

I think that is vastly overstated. If it were true, it would be well-nigh impossible to discuss anything, ever.

But my point is to distinguish between reality, which is a topic of philosophical enquiry as well as having an everyday meaning, and realism, which isn't. Realism assumes the existence of a reality. This painting of a pipe, for example, is more or less realistic according to the ease with which I can detect what the object it represents looked like. Its only reality, though, is as paint on canvas. As for the pipe itself - and this is where it gets interesting, if you like that sort of thing - is it real itself at all?

As for the use of Natural in Bryn’s link, it’s a marketing piece and not a technical article. Obviously they picked the best sounding word.

I have no idea what you mean by 'best-sounding' here! Even if they're merely doing a bit of marketing, wouldn't they want to be understood by their readers?

[MrGongGong]

The choir attained an increase of 4.5 - 7.5dB at their loudest. I'm not sure what that means really. Does not sound very much at all compared to the difference between the real things. Isn't it a bit like saying 2 million people smoke in the UK? Don't you really need a percentage figure or ratio?

Here you go again
Why are you insisting that it's not "real"?

Ok, at least you admit you don't understand db
SO

This is a good scientific explanation (if you understand maths)

http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/acoustics_info/decibels/

The important thing to remember is that dB is a logarithmic (non linear) scale as is usually measured from a reference point. So it's more useful in recording to think of it as a measure of change in perceived volume rather than something "absolute".
It does get more complicated when you start to think about (as one needs to) how this is affected by what frequencies you are talking about. The ear doesn't have an equal response to all and there are important psychoacoustic effects to take account of (how we perceive some low sounds to be pitched or unhitched, how we hear separation between different instrumental timbres depending on their attacks etc).... there's lots to read about this if you want.

BUT none of this really makes any difference because you are insistent on your misunderstandings.

[P. G. Tipps]

Anyway, I am not aware that Roger Scruton's talk centred upon acoustics, actual or perceived natural or other balances or the shortcomings of broadcast sound levels so, if there's to be such in-depth (or out of depth) discussion of such matters, shouldn't it have a thread to itself and leave this one for the discussion of what Roger Scruton actually said?

Well SAID, ahinton!

[MrGongGong]

Well SAID, ahinton!

There is one
but I think people gave up on it

Back to Scrote then (as you seem to be his disciple these days)

[ahinton]

There is one
but I think people gave up on it

One what? Thread about all the acoustical stuff? I'd not realised that; all the more reason why so much of that in this thread ought to have been there, then, if I understand you correctly about this.

Back to Scrote then (as you seem to be his disciple these days)

But Tammy dear, it has nothing to do with whether or not Tippster or indeed anyone else here is a "disciple" of his; the thread was instigated in response to a broadcast talk of his (Roger Scruton, that is - not Tippster!) with a view to discussion of its contents - that's all...

[MrGongGong]

One what? Thread about all the acoustical stuff? I'd not realised that; all the more reason why so much of that in this thread ought to have been there, then, if I understand you correctly about this.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?14182-An-Eclectic-Music-Show-with-a-Difference

Carries a health warning though

with a view to discussion of its contents - that's all...

aaah yes the content of the great talk, how could I have forgotten that?

[Lat-Literal]

I regret to say NatBalance that the title of the OP, whether ironically intended or not, appeals to polarity rather than high intellect. The only difference between the implications behind its title and, say, "The Tyranny of Pulp Fiction" is that pulp fiction is silent and in wide society something of a choice. Socially, there are few choices on sounds or indeed sights unless one moves to the Isle of Skye. Many sounds and sights are far more invasive and unavoidable. Traffic noise as I have mentioned before. Crowds - and a lot more.

Given that one aspect of music has been singled out as tyrannical but no other sound - or sight - when that aspect of sound is comparatively more avoidable, it has a distinct aura of book burning about it. For that reason, I find it offensive. I can drive but I haven't driven since 1993. I tolerate a sixfold increase in traffic with drivers who increasingly flout rules but I don't like it. I would stop short of calling it a tyranny. Find me one rational intellectual argument - and the invitation goes out to every driver of a car or two - why your behaviour is not more tyrannical on me. We will set aside for this moment the selfish impacts on the climate and future generations. If you won't or can't it is the instinct to close down that is tyrannical, especially where thought has been given to impact and with an instinct to share others' interests. Any refutation of that truth is a refutation of mere bigotry.

[doversoul1]

jean

I was going to say a lot more in regard to what you were saying but I think people are (including me) getting a bit fed up with just us going on about things. So I’ll just answer one (harmless) point in your post.

I have no idea what you mean by 'best-sounding' here

Best sounding word means just that; the word that is/sounds most effective in making potential customers feel good for wanting to buy the product etc. Copywriters earn good money for thinking up how to use words to sell.

[Lat-Literal]

jean

I was going to say a lot more in regard to what you were saying but I think people are (including me) getting a bit fed up with just us going on about things. So I’ll just answer one (harmless) point in your post.



Best sounding word means just that; the word that is/sounds most effective in making potential customers feel good for wanting to buy the product etc. Copywriters earn good money for thinking up how to use words to sell.

Hi doversoul, I'm not fed up with it. It's fine by me and even fine if not and I'm not even looking for a change in the title. But if the title stands as it has done for weeks now, then I'd have thought the least one could expect is a comparison with other aspects of culture that can if people choose be described as more tyrannical. 24 hour news, Kyle, 4 by 4s etc.

[doversoul1]

Hi doversoul, I'm not fed up with it. It's fine by me and even fine if not and I'm not even looking for a change in the title. But if the title stands as it has done for weeks now, then I'd have thought the least one could expect is a comparison with other aspects of culture that can if people choose be described as more tyrannical. 24 hour news, Kyle, 4 by 4s etc.

Oh, sorry, Lat. I must have sounded as if I were saying ‘oh, all right. If you say so. You **** spoil sport’

That wasn’t my intention at all. I didn’t even know that your post was there. Still now that we are where we are, this is the OP’s question. What do you think (and how did we wandered in where we were?)?

I'm not sure what he means by pop music. Is he including popular classical? Like Vivaldi being played on hold on the telephone, and classical music is also used as background music in some cafes.

[Lat-Literal]

Oh, sorry, Lat. I must have sounded as if I were saying ‘oh, all right. If you say so. You **** spoil sport’

That wasn’t my intention at all. I didn’t even know that your post was there. Still now that we are where we are, this is the OP’s question. What do you think?

What I think is that I will never be in the business of targeting music however poor I think some of it might be!

[teamsaint]

What I think is that I will never be in the business of targeting music however poor I think some of it might be!

Isn't some of it worthy of being targeted?

[P. G. Tipps]

Socially, there are few choices on sounds or indeed sights unless one moves to the Isle of Skye.

There certainly must have been some sights and sounds there only a few hundred or so million years ago ...

Obviously Clan Macleod proved more than a match for them.

http://www.sci-news.com/paleontology/giant-dinosaur-footprints-isle-of-skye-03480.html

[teamsaint]

There certainly must have been some sights and sounds there only a few hundred or so million years ago ...

Obviously Clan Macleod proved more than a match for them.

http://www.sci-news.com/paleontology...kye-03480.html

Er, I think you'll find it was the Macdonalds who sorted them out, in fact.
No offence.

[Nick Armstrong]

Am I the only one who feels that life (indeed, the whole of Cosmic time) is too short to grasp what's going on with this thread? It was already 500 posts old when I first looked at it, but I soon looked away..

I think I'll listen to some music instead.