The Tyranny of Pop Music

[Zucchini]

431 posts and no one until now has mentioned Tyrannysaurus Rex.

Neither have they mentioned Mahler...

[ahinton]

Neither have they mentioned Mahler...

Well, I have to confess that the fact that Mahler has yet to be mentioned on a thread that's ostensibly about The Tyranny of Pop Music and also covers piped music in largely public places doesn't especially surprise me, but what do I know?...

[NatBalance]

If you bothered to educate yourself about how the perception of volume in music relates to many other factors (as I mentioned in #418) you would maybe have a little understanding of how these things work.
The perception of "distance" and spatialisation is NOT solely related to volume but lots of other things as well but you can't be arsed to consider them. (#419)

If you COMPRESS the audio you are likely to reduce the perception of spatialisation within the sound image (unless you really know how to do multi-band compression as well as geniuses like Dallas Simpson)

And will such further study stop me jumping at the volume of the R3 presenters Mr Rude …. sorry, MrGG?

[doversoul1]

And will such further study stop me jumping at the volume of the R3 presenters Mr Rude …. sorry, MrGG?

I don’t think it will do unless you have your real problem, which most likely is a hearing problem, sorted out. Apart from some of the highly technical members occasionally complaining about some highly technical matters, hardly anybody on this forum find the ‘volume balance’ on Radio 3 such a serious and persistent problem (no thread about it). You don’t need any qualifications, even level 2, to spot the/your problem. I guess all those fancy arguments are a way of diverting your own attention from the real problem, which is a common thing that people do.

[P. G. Tipps]

I don’t think it will do unless you have your real problem, which most likely is a hearing problem, sorted out. Apart from some of the highly technical members occasionally complaining about some highly technical matters, hardly anybody on this forum find the ‘volume balance’ on Radio 3 such a serious and persistent problem (no thread about it). You don’t need any qualifications, even level 2, to spot the/your problem. I guess all those fancy arguments are a way of diverting your own attention from the real problem, which is a common thing that people do.

That is rather rude and unfair, I most humbly submit ...

Andrew MacGregor was once accused on the Old Forum of always mumbling at the end of sentences to the point of becoming completely inaudible. Not that he was/is alone in that at the BBC and other places.

The "accuser" was immediately ridiculed by some (mostly the "usual suspects") as having a 'hearing problem' which I can confirm on the most reliable and knowledgeable authority he did not have. However, he appeared to be in a minority of one so he sensibly withdrew from the "debate", which therefore eventually petered out.

Later, another very bold soul complained of exactly the same thing and eventually there were a lot more who seemed to have suddenly discovered this strange affection afflicting some presenters. The initial accuser could be forgiven for then feeling a tad smug at being so vindicated, if somewhat belatedly.

The solitary voice 'crying in the wilderness' is so often proved correct when all the verbal dust has finally settled.

[MrGongGong]

And will such further study stop me jumping at the volume of the R3 presenters Mr Rude …. sorry, MrGG?

Don't bother
better to remain blissfully mystified

[doversoul1]

That is rather rude and unfair, I most humbly submit ...

Andrew MacGregor was once accused on the Old Forum of always mumbling at the end of sentences to the point of becoming completely inaudible. Not that he was/is alone in that at the BBC and other places.

The "accuser" was immediately ridiculed by some (mostly the "usual suspects") as having a 'hearing problem' which I can confirm on the most reliable and knowledgeable authority he did not have. However, he appeared to be in a minority of one so he sensibly withdrew from the "debate", which therefore eventually petered out.

Later, another very bold soul complained of exactly the same thing and eventually there were a lot more who seemed to have suddenly discovered this strange affection afflicting some presenters. The initial accuser could be forgiven for then feeling a tad smug at being so vindicated, if somewhat belatedly.

The solitary voice 'crying in the wilderness' is so often proved correct when all the verbal dust has finally settled.

After 440 posts, I don’t recall any other members agreeing that the problem (not the volume balance of CDs but that of R3) exists as the norm. Besides, NatBalance actually asked ‘why can’t I hear it?’ At least he can look into this direction.

As for 'The solitary voice crying in the wilderness', numerous ‘helps’ have been offered, not only on this thread but on the other thread on the same point, but they have been all cheerily dismissed and ignored. This Solitary Voice seems to be intent upon keeping the verbal dust stirred up. Good luck to him.

[Bryn]

While the perceptual differences between the music content and presentation do not particularly bother me, it would seem likely that the problem as heard by NB may be down to the different circuitry though which the presentation content passes. Is it not likely that dynamic limitation is imposed re. the presentation, and that the RMS average is thus sometimes considerably higher than for the music content? If NB could offer some particularly irksome recent examples of the problem he finds, perhaps some measurement could be made and reported on here.

[Ferretfancy]

I have attended a number of talks by Andrew McGregor, usually in talks and interviews at the RCM before Prom performances. His diction is fine at these events, but when he presents Record Review his habit of bursting in on a sentence and then tailing off reasserts itself. I have no idea why this is so but the effect is irritating.

[gradus]

Can't say I've ever noticed.

[rauschwerk]

I have downloaded a sound level meter to my Android tablet and played around with measuring my relative listening levels. (it looks as though absolute measurements can be trusted to within a few dB). I was keen to find out how much difference I like between a big choral/orchestral work and a string quartet.

The Tuba mirum from the Berlioz Requiem (Previn) played at my preferred volume (alone in the house!) peaks in the mid to upper 70s when I sit 3m from the speakers. The finale of Bartok's 4th quartet (Takacs - the most orchestral string quartet writing I know) is only about 10 dB less (subjectively half as loud). This is no doubt because I imagine myself sitting close to the players in a modest sized room. Handel's German Arias (Emma Kirkby on BIS) peak in the mid 50s. If the OP considers this to be 'dumbing down' levels, I can only say that the differences seem realistic to me.

[P. G. Tipps]

Can't say I've ever noticed.

Fair enough ...not noticing something is quite different from insisting of its non-existence because, unlike others, one simply hasn't noticed it!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don’t think it will do unless you have your real problem, which most likely is a hearing problem, sorted out. Apart from some of the highly technical members occasionally complaining about some highly technical matters, hardly anybody on this forum find the ‘volume balance’ on Radio 3 such a serious and persistent problem (no thread about it). You don’t need any qualifications, even level 2, to spot the/your problem. I guess all those fancy arguments are a way of diverting your own attention from the real problem, which is a common thing that people do.

I'm one of the "hardly evers". I do regret the dynamic compression in live concerts, notable the Proms. I appreciate that it's not an easy task, but there have been some excellent BBC engineers (probably the ones who can read a score) over the years, but perhaps their number is dwindling.

[doversoul1]

I'm one of the "hardly evers". I do regret the dynamic compression in live concerts, notable the Proms. I appreciate that it's not an easy task, but there have been some excellent BBC engineers (probably the ones who can read a score) over the years, but perhaps their number is dwindling.

Where broadcast of live concerts is concerned, even I feel like moaning sometimes; where is the singer standing? Is the choir at the other end of the hall? why does the orchestra sound as if they were playing behind a screen? etc. But that isn’t the point NatBalance is making. His concern is the volume balance between the presenter’s voice and the (recorded) music played on Radio3, e.g. on Breakfast, as he describes;

...jumping at the volume of the R3 presenters

Although he sounds as if various loudness of different kind of recorded music troubles him too, as he keeps mentioning an orchestra and a string quartet or a lute, as well as the loud and the quiet part of one work. Oh, and the different sound level between a lion and a chicken.

[NatBalance]

That is rather rude and unfair, I most humbly submit ...

Thanks P.G. When they get rude I think they start loosing their credibility.

The solitary voice 'crying in the wilderness' is so often proved correct when all the verbal dust has finally settled.

Excellent. I can't say I am one of those, only time can say such a thing, but I learnt many decades ago that we usually over estimate the amount of things we can be sure about.