The Tyranny of Pop Music

[NatBalance]

But (as has been pointed out countless times) this isn't what is happening
and anyway how on earth can one "dumb down" (other cliches are available) volumes in the first place?

Well the volume dynamics are significantly altered from their natural state, I can't see that that can be disputed, and that's fair enough for home listening but, it's done to extremes. Like piped music they are reduced to levels that will not cause too much distrurbance to the listener. They are altered or dumb down even on our show, but not as drastically. I have a relative who regularly listens to our show and once the Dies Irae from Verdi's Requium came blasting out and he said he nearly spilt his coffee. That was because I had not dumbed down the volume of a full orchestra and choir at full pelt. I think in future I should ask the presenter to warn the listener if a piece is going to start off loud.

I suspect you really haven't bothered to read anything that disagrees with your misunderstandings.

Could I not accuse you of the same?

So (AGAIN)
What makes you think that there is something "natural" about a recording?

I'm not saying it is natural, but it tries to reproduce a natural sound. Perhaps the word 'natural' is not the correct word. Perhaps 'model' or 'replicate' would be better. A recording tries to model or replicate the real thing.

[MrGongGong]

A recording tries to model or replicate the real thing.

"REAL"



No it doesn't because it's equally "REAL"

The Wombles mate

"Verdi's Requium" getting close to innuendo of the day.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And what is 'natural' about electronic music composition or any musical instrument, for that matter?

Absolutely right - or a fugue, or double inverted counterpoint at the sixth, for that matter. Music (the Arts) is a cultural phenomenon, not a "natural" one.



(Not that I'm suggesting that Natty should change his nom-de-web to "Culty"!)

[NatBalance]

"REAL"



No it doesn't because it's equally "REAL"

Bloomin' 'eck. OK, a recording tries to model or replicate a live performance. Will that do yuh? Same argument applies whatever you call it.

[NatBalance]

And what is 'natural' about electronic music composition or any musical instrument, for that matter?

That is not the natural to which I am referring. I am referring to the natural relative volumes of acoustic instruments.

[ahinton]

That is not the natural to which I am referring. I am referring to the natural relative volumes of acoustic instruments.

I cannot think of a natural big enough to cancel some of the flat arguments here...

[NatBalance]

I cannot think of a natural big enough to cancel some of the flat arguments here...

Ha ha, good one. Can't be referring to me of course

[Bryn]

Here's some of that noisy percussion, and lots of it. Do not turn the volume up:

[P. G. Tipps]

That is not the natural to which I am referring. I am referring to the natural relative volumes of acoustic instruments.

Yes, I am fully aware we are tending to post at cross-purposes here but I was responding to Mr GongGong's statement which simply asked what makes one think there is anything 'natural' about recorded sound.

The subject of your seemingly bilateral discussion with the aforementioned is rather too technical for the likes of me!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I cannot think of a natural big enough to cancel some of the flat arguments here...

"Eee; so sharp you'll cut yourself" (as Betty Butterswick frequently said of me )

[P. G. Tipps]

Here's some of that noisy percussion, and lost of it. Do not turn the volume up:

Yeah, but that ain't natural ...

[Serial_Apologist]

Any live performance will exhibit decibel differences in ratio between loudest and quietest passages. If natbalance were talking about the destruction of these ratio balances in most broadcasts I would agree with him, there being nothing more annoying to my mind than the broadcast decibels actually going down (believe it or not) when the actual performance volume levels are going up - and as I've said before, this didn't used to happen to anything like the same degree(s) because I have reel-to-reels from the 1960s to prove it.

This is a different isue altogether from" naturalness" or technically unexpurgated reality blasted from the RFH through my loudspeakers to my neighbours' horror. There has to be some reduction in decibel range from that in the hall, clearly, but please, not its obliteration or even reversal.

[MrGongGong]

Bloomin' 'eck. OK, a recording tries to model or replicate a live performance. Will that do yuh? Same argument applies whatever you call it.

NO
Because it doesn't necessarily do that AT ALL
You are completely mistaken and insist that this is the case over and over again

And which "recording" are you referring to?
You can't just make nonsense statements about recordings (which seems to be a process which you have no experience of being involved in OR have had any conversations with people who DO) and assume the intention.

[MrGongGong]

Yeah, but that ain't natural ...

But it IS a work of staggering genius IMV

Tomorrow night HCMF La Monte Young
NOW that's definitely NOT natural

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is a different isue altogether from" naturalness" or technically unexpurgated reality blasted from the RFH through my loudspeakers to my neighbours' horror. There has to be some reduction in decibel range from that in the hall, clearly, but please, not its obliteration or even reversal.

This is extremely difficult to achieve and there are not enough engineers of the Kenneth Wilkinson standard, and a few too many who think in the Decca Phase 4 mode.

I am reminded of a multi-ensemble orchestration I did 8 years ago as a grand finale for a County Music Service concert. All ensembles were to play a dance from a different era, the earliest being a Byrd pavan, and the most recent being a Spanish dance composed for piano by a Durham University student. The whole selection ended with Offenbach's most famous dance, played by the entire company of some 350 players.

Recording was not allowed in the venue so the composer of the Spanish Dance had to discreetly record her piece on her phone. It worked, but was accidentally deleted after its first playback.

Several months later, I discovered that a parent had videoed all the pieces on the concert involving his son, and I persuaded the father to make an audio copy of the dance medley. It was remarkable that the string quartet playing the opening minuet sounded at the same level as the full company going hell for leather in the Can-Can. In most of the dances, the result was acceptable, but in the Spanish Dance, the compression was very damaging - but better than nothing, and it led to further performance(s).