The Tyranny of Pop Music

[vinteuil]

I can't comment on whether or not NatBalance might be considered a bit of a knob by fellow concert goers, but I do think he has a point about the stoics. It is a bit weird, sometimes.

... what on earth is wrong with being a 'stoic'?

Not everyone thinks it a triffic idea to be jumpin' about during concerts. Some of us think that that is well weird...

I'm with Frank Cooper's instructions to keyboardists -

" With regard to those who make faces while playing: one can correct this by putting
a mirror on top of the spinet or harpsichord.


It is better, and more decorous, not to mark time with the head, the body, or the
feet. It is necessary to have a relaxed manner at the keyboard, not fixing one’s gaze on
any particular object, or having an absent-minded look. When playing before a group,
it is best to look at the company that has gathered, and not appear preoccupied..."

[Beef Oven!]

... what on earth is wrong with being a 'stoic'?

I don't think it's wrong, I think it's weird, sometimes.

Not everyone thinks it a triffic idea to be jumpin' about during concerts.

Indeed not everyone, but many of us.

I'm with Frank Cooper's instructions to keyboardists -

" With regard to those who make faces while playing: one can correct this by putting
a mirror on top of the spinet or harpsichord.


It is better, and more decorous, not to mark time with the head, the body, or the
feet. It is necessary to have a relaxed manner at the keyboard, not fixing one’s gaze on
any particular object, or having an absent-minded look. When playing before a group,
it is best to look at the company that has gathered, and not appear preoccupied..."

Unhelpfully, he is silent on the commotion that could be going on in the underpants.

[MrGongGong]

Mr Sheen?

Not Pledge then?

(for that Lib Dem shine)

[MrGongGong]

Unhelpfully, he is silent on the commotion that could be going on in the underpants.

JFP?

[P. G. Tipps]

Natty - has it ever occurred to you that these other members of the audience might be noticing you and thinking you're a bit of a knob, too?

How horridly vulgar ... Mahlerians probably.

[Beef Oven!]

Not Pledge then?

(for that Lib Dem shine)

I put Pledge first, then changed it!!

Just goes to show that great minds don't think alike

[ahinton]

I'm with Frank Cooper's instructions to keyboardists -

"With regard to those who make faces while playing: one can correct this by putting
a mirror on top of the spinet or harpsichord.


It is better, and more decorous, not to mark time with the head, the body, or the
feet. It is necessary to have a relaxed manner at the keyboard, not fixing one’s gaze on
any particular object, or having an absent-minded look. When playing before a group,
it is best to look at the company that has gathered, and not appear preoccupied..."

Wise words indeed from a wise and seasoned teacher; I didn't realise that you knew about him!

One could watch Rachmaninov, Michelangeli, Pollini, Stevenson, Ogdon, Hamelin, Grante, Powell and others like a hawk and see very little of any of this unnecessary and unhelpful stuff.

[french frank]

... what on earth is wrong with being a 'stoic'?

It seems I didn't press the necessary button earlier this morning to post my reply to NatBalance's:

I have noticed many people at classical concerts for whom there does not seem to be any visible reaction going on. They are stock still like statues in their seats.

The word 'visible' is the important one.

If NatBalance had witnessed the total silence and stillness accompanying a performance, and then the explosion of applause - even cheering! - once the piece had finished, he might realise that simultaneous audible and visible signs of emotion/enjoyment/engagement are not everyone's way of responding to music that is deeply moving.

I might even venture to suggest that the reverse is the case …

[jean]

Audience members jumpin' about during concerts are all too often keeping time with some idiosyncratic pulse they're experiencing that bears no relation to what the performers are doing.

That's the worst of it.

[gradus]

Why is it 'better and more decorous etc'. There are countless great musicians who don't follow Mr Cooper's advice eg Anderszewski, Martineau, Jarret, Du Pre, Barbirolli, Bernstein, Vengerov etc... Admittedly, ignoring Mr Cooper's list of instructions might irritate some members of an audience but by no means all.

[french frank]

Admittedly, ignoring Mr Cooper's list of instructions might irritate some members of an audience but by no means all.

... which is the problem: audience members represent a whole spectrum of personality, and their likes/dislikes range between the polar opposites. They appear to find it difficult to cohabit: I recommend divorce.

[NatBalance]

Several years ago I had a very interesting conversation with Robin Maconie at a festival of Stockhausen's music at the RFH. One of the people I was with asked him what was it that first drew him to this music? and the answer was a definite enthusiasm for the SOUND it made with everything else coming later. I know plenty of musicians who play and listen "ultra-complex" music who would share the same sentiments. You might wonder why BUT unless you bother to find out more then you are doing the classic "McCartney" defence of "hey man, I don't understand that stuff and if I learn more it will get in the way of my creativity", which it utter lazy bullshit from a man who had ALAN CIVIL (FFS) playing on his records.

Oh excellent, is was the actual sound that grabbed him. I've never understood the reasoning that you have to understand classical music in order to like it. In my early years when there was music that I didn't like, especially classical music, I remember hating it (except Chopin), but I don't remember any form of understanding occuring when I gradually started to like it. AFTER I'd heard something that I liked I would THEN read about it but I don't ever remember it happening the other way around i.e. not liking a piece until given an explantion about it, and not all music has anything to understand about it anyway.

Natty - has it ever occurred to you that these other members of the audience might be noticing you and thinking you're a bit of a knob, too?

(Said in Terry Thomas voice) Oh I say, definitely dear fellow …. I do try to curb it I really do …. don't want to look a bit of a knob you know ... stiff upper lip and all that …. don't let the buggers see you move ….. but it's damn difficult old boy …. DAMNED difficult I say.

Mr Sheen?

Ha ha, nice one Beef. Yes, you've got him. He did a lecture on how to clean up your scales, and most importantly, how to wipe the smirk off your face when performing 4'33".

[Serial_Apologist]

To sit still or not to sit still is a difficult one for some of us. I find the best music to be very moving in more than just an emotional way. I used to wobble, eyes closed and totally immersed, thinking other audience members for whom bodily responses are restricted to neck-up must be missing out on a major dimension of listening involvement. Then one night someone told me that I had ruined her enjoyment with all my jiggling about. I apologised a tad grumpily saying I hadn't noticed as my eyes had been closed. Since then my enjoyment of live occasions has been diminished unless I have been able to move to the back of premises where I'm less likely to disturb, but be forced to stand - I can understand the annoyance of somebody drumming rhythmically out of sync, or shaking a linked row of seats, as are to be found in doctor's waiting rooms. Presumably were everyone to be bodily involved, like Pentecostal worshippers become, the negative effects would cancel each other out. We Brits really are a repressed lot; I guess one just has to sacrifice certain impulses freely indulged when listening at home.

[Bryn]

... how to wipe the smirk off your face when performing 4'33".

“Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck
passing by a music school?
Are the people inside the school musical and the ones outside unmusical?
What if the ones inside can't hear very well, would that change my question?”

- Guess who?

[ahinton]

“Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck
passing by a music school?
Are the people inside the school musical and the ones outside unmusical?
What if the ones inside can't hear very well, would that change my question?”

- Guess who?

That almost reminds me of this:

"It has been said that because today more people hear Beethoven in twenty-four hours (on the radio) than heard him in his whole lifetime, the people have music. Momentarily disregarding the question of the quality of the emanations from the radio, we can say: yes, and a citizen doubtless sees more policemen now in twenty-four hours than Beethoven saw in his whole lifetime. The people hear more music and ipso facto they are more musical? The people have more law, and ipso facto they are more lawful?

The analogue[sic] is not so absurd....Hearing more music - ninety-nine per cent of which is not Beethoven but the equivalent of the radio vibrations of frankfurters - accomplishes just one thing: ennui in the eardrum."

The source? Again, guess! (although you might already be able to work it out for yourself or indeed already know)...