The Tyranny of Pop Music

[MrGongGong]

I, too, share your surprise (in my case most welcome) that the BBC asked the 'ill-informed chap to do it in the first place', MrGG.

On that at least we are in full agreement!

Excellent news
So I guess you are looking forward to the new series on Radio 3

"David Beckam's guide to the Second Viennese School"

After all who needs to know anything at all and David is a handsome chap

[Beef Oven!]

After all who needs to know anything at all and David is a handsome chap

And an amazing footballer, media-savvy, entrepreneur, successful businessman from a humble working class east-end background.

Plus he's a major philanthropist who helps raise millions of pounds for children in need, National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, Malaria No More, Mothers2Mothers, Raising Malawi, UNICEF, the Red Cross and many others.

SO DON"T TRY TO TAKE THE PISS OUT OF HIM.

[MrGongGong]

SO DON"T TRY TO TAKE THE PISS OUT OF HIM.

He (allegedly) really knows his P from his RI as well
is there no end to his talents?

[vinteuil]

He (allegedly) really knows his P from his RI as well

... this?

http://solomonsmusic.net/diss8.htm

[jean]

To be fair.....the guy has points to make in critique of 1960s reforms - "the unmentionables" - but he is so of a stereotype and cliched and unbalanced he does it all a disservice. On women - 'The disappearance of female modesty and sexual restraint has made it hard for a man to believe, when a woman yields to his advances, that her doing so is a special tribute to his masculine powers, rather than a day-to-day transaction, in which he, like the last one, is dispensable.'

There's more, if you can bear it:

...My grandfather's gesture, as he laid down his wage packet on the kitchen table, was imbued with a peculiar grace: it was a recognition of my grandmother's importance as a woman, of her right to his consideration and of her value as the mother of his children. Likewise, her waiting outside the pub until closing time, when he would be too unconscious to suffer the humiliation of it, before transporting him home in a wheelbarrow, was a gesture replete with feminine considerateness. It was her way of recognizing his inviolable sovereignty as a wage earner and a man...

No wonder

Regarding Mr Scruton I have nothing but admiration for the gentleman. If nodding one's head almost constantly on reading his wise words is a sign of approval then I plead guilty, m'lud.

[ahinton]

Precisely ... not even ahinton!

Why single me out for mention? I do not pretend expertise on this.

Regarding Mr Scruton I have nothing but admiration for the gentleman. If nodding one's head almost constantly on reading his wise words is a sign of approval then I plead guilty, m'lud.

In the days of absurd notions like 'equality' and 'gender balance', and the like, Mr Scruton's views are refreshingly straightforward and courageous and, indeed, are much less 'stereotypical' than the predictable, knee-jerk howls of protest from those who apparently believe the gentleman has no right to express an honest opinion if it in any way differs from their own.

In my very humble opinion Mr Scruton deserves a knighthood for services to Reason, way beyond the call of duty, but, of course, Mr Cameron would be appalled at the very suggestion and would much rather hug a hoodie, or be known as the first PM to introduce transgenderism to the House of Commons, than do anything of the kind.

Talking of whom, the Prime Minister's selection of "music" on D.I.D was even more execrable (if that were at all possible) than that of the First Minister of Scotland.

Oh, right on cue, the PM has just popped up on radio to give the country his daily lecture ...

What you might think about Mr Scruton's views on other matters and how you rate his gifts as a philosopher is hardly of direct relevance to the topic at hand, any more than are the PM's or First Minister of Scotland's DID choices.

[ahinton]

David Cameron is highly unlikely to offer Mr. Scruton a job!

No more or less so than that Mr Scruton would accept such a job if it were offered!

[ahinton]

You seemed to be suggesting that many "young people" haven't heard acoustic instruments?
This might be true if this was a discussion about the Contrabassoon or Cimbasso but schools are full of guitars, saxophones, clarinets, trumpets, violins etc etc

I didn't write "many", which might suggest or imply the majority of them; I wrote "so many", which means "as many as there are" and, however few in numbers or small a proportion of them all this might be, the object of my use of "so many" was to imply that for even a small number to be unfamiliar with such things is a larger one than it ought to be; furthermore, there are rather larger numbers of them who are given little or no opportunity or encouragement to take up a musical instrument but very few who are unable to access reading and writing skills.

[ahinton]

I, too, share your surprise (in my case most welcome) that the BBC asked the 'ill-informed chap to do it in the first place', MrGG.

On that at least we are in full agreement!

I think that in some of the sharp criticism of Mr Scruton's talk and of BBC for having engaged him to give it, the programme title appears to have been overlooked; just to remind anyone who may have overlooked it, it is A Point of View...

[jean]

But he has written music himself. You may hear some of it here:

http://www.rogerscruton.com/rs-music.html

[ahinton]

Excellent news
So I guess you are looking forward to the new series on Radio 3

"David Beckam's guide to the Second Viennese School"

I've not heard this yet but imagine that he might begin by questioning why Schönberg decided to devise a system in which all twelve tones are treated equally whereas in a soccer team there are only eleven players (until and unless any are sent off) and, my lack of soccer expertise notwithstanding, I don't think that they're usually treated equally; should be ample for a 10-minute-or-less talk on A Point of View, I imagine...

[ahinton]

But he has written music himself. You may hear some of it here:

http://www.rogerscruton.com/rs-music.html

I know that (OK, others here might not have done, so thank you for pointing it out).

[ahinton]

And an amazing footballer, media-savvy, entrepreneur, successful businessman from a humble working class east-end background.

Plus he's a major philanthropist who helps raise millions of pounds for children in need, National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, Malaria No More, Mothers2Mothers, Raising Malawi, UNICEF, the Red Cross and many others.

SO DON"T TRY TO TAKE THE PISS OUT OF HIM.

No, indeed - especially since he doesn't pretend to be an "expert" in matters under discussion here, whatever "points of view" he might or might not have on them.

[MrGongGong]

I didn't write "many", which might suggest or imply the majority of them; I wrote "so many", which means "as many as there are" and, however few in numbers or small a proportion of them all this might be, the object of my use of "so many" was to imply that for even a small number to be unfamiliar with such things is a larger one than it ought to be; furthermore, there are rather larger numbers of them who are given little or no opportunity or encouragement to take up a musical instrument but very few who are unable to access reading and writing skills.

I think you might be digging a hole here.
Of course there should be MORE music in schools of ALL types
In my opinion those who have only listened to "Classical" music (and they DO exist) should be taught about Metal and Jazz and those who have only heard "Pop" music should be singing Monteverdi Madrigals .... that's what school is for ! To discover NEW things. (IMV)

In many ways the current trend in music education for everything to be about Performance because that's a demonstrable and easily measurable "skill" is having a detrimental effect on music education. But that's another discussion all together.

[P. G. Tipps]

There's more, if you can bear it:

...My grandfather's gesture, as he laid down his wage packet on the kitchen table, was imbued with a peculiar grace: it was a recognition of my grandmother's importance as a woman, of her right to his consideration and of her value as the mother of his children. Likewise, her waiting outside the pub until closing time, when he would be too unconscious to suffer the humiliation of it, before transporting him home in a wheelbarrow, was a gesture replete with feminine considerateness. It was her way of recognizing his inviolable sovereignty as a wage earner and a man...

Not only can I bear it, I am now positively wallowing in it, jean ...

How wonderful!