Slow down for crying out loud - extreme tempi in baroque music

[Dave2002]

One of the worst examples I cn think of is Hilary Hahn's mad speeds the outer movements for her Bach Violin Concerto recording on DG . What is notable , however, is that the tempo for the violin and oboe concerto whilst far from slow is much better judged .

I have started going through my collection and picking out CDs for a second chance that I did not like much first time - before they find their way to the charity shop and so far this is on its way to Oxfam !

This one perhaps - http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Violin-Co.../dp/B000099156

You can send it to me if you like! It's fast I agree, and does feel a bit edgy, but it's not totally out of order.

The 2 violin concerto is probably worse. The oboe concerto starts off OK, and then it sounds as though the oboist pushes things on a bit - tries to go even faster for a second or two - then relaxes - a bit.

Not actually a very relaxing CD overall - maybe it'd better go to Oxfam! I'm starting to feel ill - and I often like Hahn's work.

[ahinton]

In actual fact, Miss Hahn's tempi are only a little faster than those taken by Standage and Pinnock. I don't find them to be either mad or batty.

Whilst not directy relevant to aspects of Baroque performance practice, there are occason in the music of Alkan where it seems as though the music is being played too slowly unless it's being played too fast (if that makes any sense!) - I'm thinking, for example, of the mains réunis étude in Op. 76 and the finali of the Symphonie from Op. 39 and the Grand Duo for violin and piano; I mention this here only to point up the difficulties of determining what might feel like an appropriate tempo to the performer and what might do so for the listener.

[ardcarp]

Or is the term a verbal representation of adjacent cresc decresc symbols: <>?

It is.

[Barbirollians]

This one perhaps - http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Violin-Co.../dp/B000099156

You can send it to me if you like! It's fast I agree, and does feel a bit edgy, but it's not totally out of order.

The 2 violin concerto is probably worse. The oboe concerto starts off OK, and then it sounds as though the oboist pushes things on a bit - tries to go even faster for a second or two - then relaxes - a bit.

Not actually a very relaxing CD overall - maybe it'd better go to Oxfam! I'm starting to feel ill - and I often like Hahn's work.

It may not be much faster than Standage but it sounds like it ! The slow movements are fine , nicely flowing but the E Minor sounds like she had to be somewhere .

[Ferretfancy]

I certainly agree about fast speeds in baroque music, but I also feel that the problem often arises elsewhere. Last weekend I heard a performance of Sibelius 5 by the Philharmonia and Esa-Pekka Salonen. The concert got some enthusiastic reviews, and there was certainly some fine playing, but throughout the performance I felt that everything was pushed just a shade too fast. The result was a loss of that organic growth and a certain grandeur which we hear in the best Sibelius, with a rather episodic result. Earlier in the programme Arabella Steinbacher played the Brahms Violin Concerto without feeling the need to whip everything along, so it can be done!

Perhaps the worst offenders are pianists. Nowadays the standard of execution is very high, and the current generation of pianists have extraordinary technical skill, but just because it is possible to play at breakneck speed it doesn't mean that this should always be the primary aim.

[Stanfordian]

I certainly agree about fast speeds in baroque music, but I also feel that the problem often arises elsewhere. Last weekend I heard a performance of Sibelius 5 by the Philharmonia and Esa-Pekka Salonen. The concert got some enthusiastic reviews, and there was certainly some fine playing, but throughout the performance I felt that everything was pushed just a shade too fast. The result was a loss of that organic growth and a certain grandeur which we hear in the best Sibelius, with a rather episodic result. Earlier in the programme Arabella Steinbacher played the Brahms Violin Concerto without feeling the need to whip everything along, so it can be done!

Perhaps the worst offenders are pianists. Nowadays the standard of execution is very high, and the current generation of pianists have extraordinary technical skill, but just because it is possible to play at breakneck speed it doesn't mean that this should always be the primary aim.

Hiya Ferretfancy,

I enjoyed reading your views and experiences on this thread. Maybe this is too simplistic but I believe a lot is down to our consciousness making comparisons with what we are used to hearing.

[gurnemanz]

Something you would probably hate, BBM is, Rinaldo Alessandrini starting Vivaldi's Gloria at a breakneck tempo. It is a shock at first but I do find the whole thing rather exhilarating, if I wouldn't want it to be the only recording I own. Other fast movements are taken similarly zippily (eg a Domine Fili to rival Usain Bolt). He takes slow movements at a correspondingly leisurely pace. One reason why I bought the CD was for Sara Mingardo who I adore and I wouldn't be without her exquisitely lugubrious Domine Deus lasting 5.07 - over a minute more than most others.

[ardcarp]

Perhaps the worst offenders are pianists. Nowadays the standard of execution is very high, and the current generation of pianists have extraordinary technical skill, but just because it is possible to play at breakneck speed it doesn't mean that this should always be the primary aim.

I think this is part of it. Also it may have something to do with the 21st century brain, used to processing things faster and having a lower threshold of boredom. And once you have heard something faster often enough (e.g. a Bach Brandenburg) a slower rendition can sound 'ploddy'. Is it about time someone formed a new EM band, Baroque Steady ?

[Serial_Apologist]

It is.

Then I think I understand - only I had assumed these <> symbols would not be present on actual scores of the 17th/18th centuries being played thus, but that the "mannerism" has become habitual practice lately?

(Sorry if I'm getting boring!)

[Nick Armstrong]

What do we make of the new baroque cello concerto recording from the young French cellist Edgar Moreau and Il Pomo D'Oro? At 5'57", and then at 8'30" to the end of this promotional video, are a couple of extended clips of quick movements: impressive dexterity, but relentlessly fast? I think so (and I just heard AMcG make a similar comment in featuring the disc on CD Review last weekend, having just caught up):

The album appears to be a 'featured recording' on Classic FM 'Drivetime' - wonder if there'll be an increase in the number of speeding tickets among CFM listeners...

[Barbirollians]

The Haydn is too fast I agree - he appears very talented though .