Classical - (Jazz) - Pop

[NatBalance]

aaah I now think I understand what you do.
This has nothing at al to do with Steve Reich (except in your head) or the "minimalism" box that you decide it fits into
what you appear to be doing is to hear something then make a comparative link and then feel you have somehow "sorted" what it is you are listening to.

Remember I don't have to understand a piece of music in order to like it or not, just as I don't have to understand a slice of cake to decide whether it's yummy or yuky. Likewise I don't have to put music in a box, or compare it to something else in order to decide whether I like it or not.

Extreme pieces of information might affect whether I like the cake. I mean, if I'm told it is made of eye of newt, toe of toad and slime of slug, then despite my taste buds liking it, it might mean a quick visit to the bathroom.

[gurnemanz]

Fascinating discussion, some of which I have actually understood. As a punter rather than any kind of musicological expert I take music as essentially an ephemeral experience. It is performed and is gone, unlike a painting which you can stare at for as long as you like. Only the advent of recording just over a century ago introduced an element of permanence. I believe Mozart could "visualise" a whole piece of music in his mind, but most of us do not have that facility. Even musical notation, another attempt to impose permanence on a piece of music, is relatively recent.

Performance is older than composition and the oral tradition which prevailed for centuries meant that a piece of music was constantly changing and never fixed. The prevalent music of our time is not "classical" but rock/pop and this protean element in music is exemplified for me in one of its definitive exponents, Bob Dylan. For him a song does not really exist until it is performed in front of an audience. Over the years he has given 2203 concert renditions of All Along the Watchtower and aged 74 he still tours relentlessly to ensure that his songs remain alive on his terms. He was at RAH last week. People who turn up to a concert of his expecting to hear something that sounds like the original studio recording might be (and frequently are) bitterly disappointed. Recordings are useful fossils.

[Lat-Literal]

WOW, thanks very much Gongers. They were brilliant. Listened to every one right through, except the 1 hour long Vomir and the 40 minute Sublime Frequencies. My views:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQYfXlYMxes

Yes, minimalism, love it. The first time I heard mimmalism was in the late 70s I think when I heard Steve Reich's Music for 18 Musicians and at first I thought 'Yes, it's good but I want it to change more significantly now', can't remember whether I stuck out the whole performance but remember later on when thinking back about it and tinkering on the piano I realised that 'Wait a minute, I've been doing minimalism myself on the piano, imrpovising, repeating a phrase and gradually changing it', but then I would go on to melody type music, I wouldn't keep doing it for 60 minutes, but the memory of 18 musicians remained in my mind and when I heard it again I enjoyed the fact that it only changed gradually. I grew to absolutely love the stuff and a couple of years ago heard 18 Musicians live (Manchester, Bridgewater Hall, June I think - anyone here there?). It was fantastic hypnotic music, I would go to another performance right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fAM192cXDg

Aaaauh, where's the rest of it? It was just getting good when it stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNgPvVPGyf0

Oh, full marks for trying Mr G …. BUT, do you know what? I listened to the whole thing. It was getting very close to 'not like' with the sound that jarrs but that's mainly because I fear it's damaging my ears. I was thinking 'Yes, if he holds that for too long I no like' but then later on he did hold it for a long time, I think, unless my computer froze for a bit, and as long as it's not too loud that jarring pitch can be quite hypnotically groovy. There was always change, it was fascinating, I liked it but I cannot say I would like a repeat performance in the near future. Give it a couple of hours …. no … just kidding, need a gap of a few days I think but then I suppose any music has its limited play time beyond which you say 'No more, no more, I given in!'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypacXdOuzJw

Oh yes, very hypnotic. Lovely warm sound, and when it suddenly stops it does weird but wonderfull things to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEIc7YdSFpU

Mmm, interesting, can't say I don't like it though, it just IS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxggqnOBzqo

Also interesting, kind of spacy, loved the bit near the end, all creepy and alien, still can't say I don't like it. Don't know why it's called feed back music. I associate feed back with that high pitch jarring sound that goes right rhough your head like Otomo Yoshihide was sometimes producing. Sounded more like distortion to me but then I'm not that experience in live sound yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLzEgrHKxNM

Like, but as above would not listen to a lot, although perhaps I could get addicted. Depends on mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZBnXf2FfJc

Yes like. I will make time to listen to the whole of this sometime.

Bye the way Lat-Literal, I'm not the guy you are thinking of. I'm not on Digital Spy.

Thanks for the clarification.

[MrGongGong]

Remember I don't have to understand a piece of music in order to like it or not, just as I don't have to understand a slice of cake to decide whether it's yummy or yuky. Likewise I don't have to put music in a box, or compare it to something else in order to decide whether I like it or not.

But you appear to be saying you like everything?

And you started this all off with your boxes

I'm sure you are great company but I wouldn't let you order my meal in a restaurant

[NatBalance]

But you appear to be saying you like everything?

Yep, so far, although I'm sure there are some songs where I tend to reach for the sick bag when they start to sloppily talk in the middle section.

And you started this all off with your boxes

Sure did, but I did not cite it as a deciding factor in my view of the music

[MrGongGong]

Yep, so far, although I'm sure there are some songs where I tend to reach for the sick bag when they start to sloppily talk in the middle section.

All music you have ever heard?

I hope you are not suggesting that music=songs

It's a real shame that Oliver Sacks died this year, i'm sure he would have found you an interesting subject to study.

[Lat-Literal]

Yep, so far, although I'm sure there are some songs where I tend to reach for the sick bag when they start to sloppily talk in the middle section.

I know.

I know you must follow the sun wherever it leads.

But remember if you should fall short of your desires, life holds for you one guarantee.

You'll always have me.

.............there ain't no mountain high enough to keep me from you-who!

(Great song - Ashford and Simpson - something in my mind said Talk Talk but it was KLM Airlines apparently)

[NatBalance]

All music you have ever heard?

I hope you are not suggesting that music=songs

It's a real shame that Oliver Sacks died this year, i'm sure he would have found you an interesting subject to study.

Well as long as he wouldn't squash me between two plates of glass and stuff me under a microscope.

Nope, I'm not suggesting music=songs. I'm referring to everything from native tribal music to Gregorian Chant, traditional folk music, solo pieces, orchestral, punk, heavy metal, baroque, country, romantic, house, garage, potting shed (what do ya mean that one doesn't exist, it's GOT to exist), brass band, rubber band and so on and so on.

[Lat-Literal]

Well as long as he wouldn't squash me between two plates of glass and stuff me under a microscope.

Nope, I'm not suggesting music=songs. I'm referring to everything from native tribal music to Gregorian Chant, traditional folk music, solo pieces, orchestral, punk, heavy metal, baroque, country, romantic, house, garage, potting shed (what do ya mean that one doesn't exist, it's GOT to exist), brass band, rubber band and so on and so on.

Not a Sacks squash but.............

The CIA specifically picked out boy band Westlife, heavy metal, rap artists Eminem and Dr Dre and also the Red Hot Chili Peppers as pre-identified "torture music" for use on prisoners in Aghanistan according to the report "Out of the Darkness" produced by the American Civil Liberties Union. So your broad argument isn't in line with their research.

[MrGongGong]

The CIA specifically picked out boy band Westlife, heavy metal, rap artists Eminem and Dr Dre and also the Red Hot Chili Peppers as pre-identified "torture music" for use on prisoners in Aghanistan according to the report "Out of the Darkness" produced by the American Civil Liberties Union. So your broad argument isn't in line with their research.

Not forgetting this masterpiece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlL5RcJWNPE

(https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/sonic-warfare)

[ahinton]

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/sonic-warfare)

Interesting that the only composers mentioned in the book's index (at least as far as I can tell from a brief glance) are Cage, Messiaen and Wagner (unless you'd count Brian Eno and Luigi Russolo as well)...