"I'm a Barbie Girl" in the style of 6 classical composers

[Mario]

Serious question...

Why do some posters on this forum find it necessary to destroy the enjoyment others find in certain composers?

[Sir Velo]

Of course but never a fan of Beethoven and think that he stuck pretty closely to the material he was working with. If you are used to jazz , the treatment is not really that radical as Beethoven did not have the tools to totally transform his starting point . Begs the question as to who was the better improviser...Beethoven or John Coltrane ? Or even Keith Jarrett.

Beethoven was a renowned improviser in his day. Do listen to his Fantasy Op.77 which is one of the more remarkable "improvised" notated pieces of music.

[vinteuil]

.
... if you liked that, you might like this -

https://www.aaronwyanski.com/schoenberg-in-hi-fi

.

[smittims]

I agree, Mario. Ted Greenfield had a word for them : 'unenjoyers' !

[vinteuil]

I agree, Mario. Ted Greenfield had a word for them : 'unenjoyers' !

... I very happily unenjoy many things -futbol, the Dream of Gerontius, Morten Lauridsen, Eric Whitacre, James Macmillan, Japanese cuisine, conifer forests, milk chocolate, Switzerland, science fiction, butternut squash, sweet potato, okra, dahlias usw usw usw.

I don't think my dislike of very many things gets in the way of others' enjoyment of them. Obviously not.

We used to call this approach 'discriminating', in a good way - 'a discriminating taste'

.

[smittims]

Quite so, vinteuil. I think there's a difference between your chosen avoidance of some music (I do that too) and actively trying to put others off.

[vinteuil]

... but does anyone here really 'try to put others off', 'destroy the enjoyment of others' ??

Many of us have strong opinions - and some of us of course are right - but I don't think in holding those opinions we are trying to discourage others. Even when we know we are right and that others holding other opinions are just wrong, silly, ridiculous, ill-informed &c



.

[Dave2002]

Very good stuff here. What about in the style of Schoenberg, Webern, Berg or even Stockhousen?

Than at the other extreme Orlando di Lassus, Hildergarde of Bingen, or Tallis, Byrd or Purcell.

[hmvman]

I have a CD called "Hey-Ho Mozart" which, in similar vein, is arrangements of songs from Disney films in the styles of various composers, some very good too!

[Serial_Apologist]

.
... if you liked that, you might like this -

https://www.aaronwyanski.com/schoenberg-in-hi-fi

.

Truly, truly wonderful, for which I can't thank you too much vints. I'm sharing this among my elite.

[Serial_Apologist]

Very good stuff here. What about in the style of Schoenberg, Webern, Berg or even Stockhousen?

Best first of all to try improvising music without tonal resolutions, and then, once you get used to this, producing melodies with as few pitch repetitions as possible for as long as possible, either in the melodic line or its accompaniment. You'll soon run out of basic material, especially if improvising more than one part!

The thing is of course that Schoenberg never really followed his dodecatonic system rigidly, as can be heard from listening to the Op 25 (the very first integrated 12-tone work, unless Hauer got there first!) which contains any number of repeated accompanying figures and even repeats of beginnings before the entire pitch series has been stated. The other thing is that his principle saw the pitch series in terms of a shape, to be presented horizontally, melodically, in harmonic and melodic combinations, inverted, reverse-inverted, with pitches octave-displaced or inverted, so that say a C-D can be a major second, major 9th, minor 7th, etc etc, allowing for considerable variation. Furthermore, it - the shape - could be lifted wholesale and transposed so as to "start" on any pitch, at any point in the series' unfolding, even if the point at which the transpostion takes place appears to contravene correct sequentiality. Of course, this all depends on which period of Schoenberg we are talking about - the "expanded tonality" stage, up to around 1907; the free atonal stage, the 12-tone stage or even the later works in which Schoenberg returned to using keys. One would consider Berg and Webern in like manner. Stockhausen would be even more difficult to assess for guidance regarding a recognisable style for imitation purposes.

Then at the other extreme Orlando di Lassus, Hildergarde of Bingen, or Tallis, Byrd or Purcell.

Peter Maxwell Davies did something of the above kind in his 1968 work Missa Super L'Homme Armé.

[Dave2002]

.
... if you liked that, you might like this -

https://www.aaronwyanski.com/schoenberg-in-hi-fi

.

Nah - too traditional!

[Ian Thumwood]

I love those Schoenberg album covers. They made me laugh.

It is quite amusing to suggest that Capitol would release avant garde music albums because they did flirt with the cutting edge of contemporary jazz in the late 1940s when rhey were established. This included Miles Davis's nonet which took it's cues from Debussy. These recordings are justly celebrated.

Capitol were also responsible for the sessions by Lennie Tristano's sextet which included 2 spontaneously recorded tracks which caused the executives to immediately cease the recording of modern jazz as they hated the results.

It is fascinating because much if Tristano's work.is based in Broadway songs and was also hugely influenced by Bach.

I get that Beethoven was a great improviser but I think improvisation in the 20th century was far more advanced that what Beethoven could have imagined in the 1820s. Chopin was of the next generation and I think even better than LvB as an improviser.


I really enjoyed the clip and am sorry if my dislike of Beethoven and Schubert offended. Germanic music lost it's appeal for me after Haydn !

[french frank]

I get that Beethoven was a great improviser but I think improvisation in the 20th century was far more advanced that what Beethoven could have imagined in the 1820s. Chopin was of the next generation and I think even better than LvB as an improviser.

Do we actually know much about Beethoven's improvisational skills? Isn't improvisation essentially a spontaneous and live performance technique?

[Ian Thumwood]

Do we actually know much about Beethoven's improvisational skills? Isn't improvisation essentially a spontaneous and live performance technique?

Do you not think the Diabelli variations etc are not notated Improvisations produced after the event ?

I think Beethoven would have loved the YouTube clip btw.