Light Music

[Master Jacques]

It's not at all nonsense as long as you understand what Apple/Amazon mean by 'classical'.

Perhaps you're luckier than me, looking at some of the inappropriate and irrelevant garbage that comes up when I tick the "classical" box during an Amazon search. The truth is, they mean anything by it which doesn't fit into the more rigorously defined pop "genres". It's of no value as a search engine denominative.

[french frank]

The truth is, they mean anything by it which doesn't fit into the more rigorously defined pop "genres". It's of no value as a search engine denominative.

That was the point I made: once you understand their criterion you know it won’t serve your purpose.

[Serial_Apologist]

The Elizabethan Serenade - for the sake of anybody wondering what on earth is being argued over - with very appropriate pictures accompanying, in my opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4XgbIhlOvk

[french frank]

The Elizabethan Serenade - for the sake of anybody wondering what on earth is being argued over - with very appropriate pictures accompanying, in my opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4XgbIhlOvk

I'd probably say it's a perfect specimen of what it is. I mean that as a philosophical discussion point not a supercilious putdown.

[LMcD]

Just out of interest, do 'The Water Mill' and 'Sailing By' break any rules?

[Serial_Apologist]

Just out of interest, do 'The Water Mill' and 'Sailing By' break any rules?

They would belong to the Music to Binge On category, I would think.

[vinteuil]

.

... in the 'olden days' when I frequented record / CD shops they oftentimes had a section entitled "Easy Listening".

To my mind, that is what "Light Music" is.

Needless to say I was questin' a (non-existent) section, "Difficult Listening"...

.

[Master Jacques]

They would belong to the Music to Binge On category, I would think.

As you may know, he wrote a Mag & Nunc Evening Service, known as - I kid ye not - Binge in A Flat. Pure genius.
(They don't call him "The Mahler of Derby" for nothing, you know.)

[Ein Heldenleben]

To deal with the last (easier) point first, no - I don't think that was Binge's style, and he didn't need to do any of it. I think he spotted that his Andante Cantabile 'had something' to say to his time and place which the retitling would bring out, and he was proved right in spades.

What's more, this quality was picked up in Germany - where, believe it or not, the piece has been even more popular than it is here - as somehow representing the 'new Germany' after the war too. I've got a lovely recording of the Elisabeth-Serenade (as they call it) sung by Eva Lind, which uses words very different from Christopher Hassall's English singing version ("Where the Gentle Avon Flows").

As for the way the piece stretches (rather than breaks) the rules, its contrapuntal density and highly-developed formal symettries (surprisingly complex - I'll accept one of your criteria! - and compressed) are highly unusual for so-called "light music" of the time. What it does - just as Mozart and Schubert do - is put into perspective our criteria for "seriousness" in art, which is often too close to "solemnity" for comfort.

By the way, I wasn't implying that your set of criteria were without value - just that many of them are irrelevant to an attempted value judgement on Elizabethan Serenade (or indeed, Binge's impressive ouevre generally!)

It irks me that the score is still in copyright so I can’t study these technical points. The front page does reveal a delicacy of scoring (influenced by Dvorak’s Serenade ?) . The main theme has an uncanny similarity to the finale of the Pastoral - it’s even in F major - and the phrasing is again so similar. But to me it’s inferior - fair enough most things are. My criteria might be irrelevant for a judgment as to how good the piece is but I think they are notes towards defining what “seriousness” in music might be . So Beethovens folk song arrangements to me are not “serious “ music 1 but the Eroica is.

[Master Jacques]

Just out of interest, do 'The Water Mill' and 'Sailing By' break any rules?

Delicious pieces both. Well, I would say yes, they do. They're not so complex, but they do have one technical-structural trick in common with Elizabethan Serenade, in so far as what sounds like the accompanying figuration turns out to be practically the main theme. The oboe theme in The Watermill and the big string tune in Sailing By are effectively 'second subjects' in both cases. This kind of procedure isn't what quotidian "light music" usually does, where we get intro-tune-development-recap with possibly a bit of counterpoint between tune and development to finish. The really memorable pieces all do things a bit differently, one way and another.

[Master Jacques]

It irks me that the score is still in copyright so I can’t study these technical points. The front page does reveal a delicacy of scoring (influenced by Dvorak’s Serenade ?) . The main theme has an uncanny similarity to the finale of the Pastoral - it’s even in F major - and the phrasing is again so similar. But to me it’s inferior - fair enough most things are. My criteria might be irrelevant for a judgment as to how good the piece is but I think they are notes towards defining what “seriousness” in music might be . So Beethovens folk song arrangements to me are not “serious “ music 1 but the Eroica is.

The comparisons with Dvorak and Beethoven, citing Binge as somehow an "inferior" copy, are problematic for me. They certainly don't provide any sort of sticks with which to beat Binge's miniature gem. I agree with you about his delicacy of scoring; but as its woodwind figuration (theme 2) is supported by lower strings (theme 1), which then combine under the upper string tune (theme 3), neither Dvorak's wind nor his string serenade could serve as a model; nor is his sonic palette at all like Binge's.

By the by, I would take polite issue with finding the best of Beethoven's folk song settings anything other than "serious" music, in the qualitative sense - I offer you "When Will You Come Again, My Faithful Johnny' (just for starters) as deeply haunting music of timeless quality, at least in the mouth of a great singer (e.g. Fischer-Dieskau); and Beethoven siezed on one of the Irish jigs as the main theme of the whirling dance-finale of his 7th Symphony.

[MickyD]

I've only just noticed this thread. I remember mocking my Dad's love of Light Music, but as I got older, I realised just how well crafted and enjoyable much of it is.

Coates is a favourite, but so far I haven't noticed anyone putting in a word for dear old Ketelby. I find his music particularly interesting because it spans quite a long period with different styles. One of his later pieces 'The Clock and the Dresden figures' sounds really very 1930s....it is a superbly witty concertino for piano and orchestra which I adore. It's also fascinating to compare older and newer versions. John Lanchbery takes it at quite a leisurely pace, but go back to the original Ketelby recording and he takes it at a terrific lick!

[rauschwerk]

Perhaps it's not generally known that Albert Ketelbey was Clifford Curzon's uncle. In later life, Curzon remembered with pleasure his uncle's visits, during which he would play his latest pieces.

[hmvman]

Thanks to Master Jacques I shall listen to Elizabethan Serenade with new ears!

Another fan of Ketelbey here. (There's a tradition at the Scarborough Spa Orchestra concerts that when a piece by AK is announced the audience gives a loud cheer.)

[gradus]

Shame that the Proms hasn't devoted any concerts to light music and perhaps more surprising that British orchestras seldom if ever offer it as encores.