Lebrecht on Rattle

[Barbirollians]

That orchestra famously, of course, decided to dispense with the post of chief conductor over 90 years ago, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm. I was intrigued to read of Sir Simon's encounter, on being appointed to the Berlin job, with the widow of HvK who rather melodramatically suggested that the orchestra had killed him, and would have done for Abbado as well had he not retired with ill-health. Since HvK was at the helm for 34 years, these orchestral hit-men must have been extraordinarily incompetent assassins ...

I suspect she was referring to the 1980s fallout .

[richardfinegold]

'Melodramatically' is putting it politely!

In an elite status organisation of 120+ people like the BPO there are going to be a lot of large personalities. Rattle suggests it was a vocal minority that gave him grief. The orchestra extended his initial contract so presumably the majority of them regarded him positively but a recalcitrant 20-30 could still create a lot of trouble.

Regarding his development as a conductor and whether he has fulfilled his early promise, he made his name initially with repertoire outside the traditional 19th century Austro-German stalwarts (Mahler wasn't one in the 1970s). He's not quite hit the highest of heights in the likes of Beethoven but any 21st century conductor has the problem of comparison with 100 years of recordings in this repertoire. More generally it is perhaps unrealistic to expect conductors to excel in a very wide repertoire although this doesn't stop some trying.

There seems to be a pattern with the BPO of conductors with relatively long tenures, including contract renewals, leaving with less than amicable goodbyes. Perhaps it’s like celebrity marriages, which judging by the high divorce rates, seem to have phases:
1) Courtship-strong initial attraction
2) early settling in
3) Alternating years of devotion and stormy disagreements as the egos take over
4) Divorce

K.P. Might be 2

[Maclintick]

Just heard a cracking LVB Sym4 given by Sir Simon with the VPO on BR Klassik.

[silvestrione]

Just heard a cracking LVB Sym4 given by Sir Simon with the VPO on BR Klassik.

That sounds interesting: do you have any more details? Or a link? I can't find it at all.

[smittims]

Might it be his EMI recording from 2002, recorded in concert at the Musikverein and vailable since then in various formats?

[Maclintick]

That sounds interesting: do you have any more details? Or a link? I can't find it at all.

Here on Christopher Mann’s morning programme. As Smittims says, it may be his 2002 recording - probably not live as no applause. Unfamiliar to me until yesterday.

https://www.br-klassik.de/programm/radio/ausstrahlung-3564648.html

[silvestrione]

Yes I twigged eventually, that you had to be referring to the radio, rather than the label! (And so, the old recording).

[Maclintick]

Yes I twigged eventually, that you had to be referring to the radio, rather than the label! (And so, the old recording).

Yes, I should have made that clearer, but as far as I know the VPO don't appear on the BR Klassik
label.

[smittims]

There's no applause on the EMI CD, which is said to have been 'recorded live'. But such recordings are often edited by clever insertion of separately recorded 'empty hall' reverberation, or even re-recordng of the last chord, and so on.

[oliver sudden]

Re-recording, or more often pre-recording at the dress rehearsal, where you might do a complete run under concert conditions or at least a couple of what you can predict will be the tricky passages. And often a programme will be done a few times so there will be alternatives.

Sometimes that can get a bit lacking in verisimilitude though. One example is the Dresden/Davis Elgar 1, where the brass are audibly flagging towards the end but then suddenly the coda is pristine, even with the trumpets taking their final chord up the octave as the score permits.

[Pulcinella]

Will they not sometimes alert the audience that a commercial recording is being made and ask for there to be no applause?

[AuntDaisy]

Here on Christopher Mann’s morning programme. As Smittims says, it may be his 2002 recording - probably not live as no applause. Unfamiliar to me until yesterday.
https://www.br-klassik.de/programm/r...g-3564648.html

I think Christopher Mann mentions a weekend Salzburger Festspiele & his colleague, Fridemann Leipold, being there - but my German is terrible & I can't find it online...

Anyway, the Rattle / Wiener Philharmoniker Beethoven 4 is available to hear for ~4 days - but BR Klassik's player can sometimes be a bit tricky to get to the bit you want to hear.

https://www.br.de/radio/live/br-klassik/programm/2024-08-28/

Alternatively, you can go directly to the MP4 stream, (but it might not work in all web browsers).
The Rattle Beethoven 4 is announced ~18:08 in (after the Resphighi), brief credits ~52:04.

https://mcdn.hf-nh.br.de/br/hf/7t/brklassik/brklassik_20240826T110000+0200.mp4

[Darkbloom]

Will they not sometimes alert the audience that a commercial recording is being made and ask for there to be no applause?

The German audiences that I've heard tend not to break into immediate applause so that probably makes it easier. Even Bayreuth audiences usually wait a polite few seconds before their usual chorus of boos and animal noises. I think the Rattle Mahler 5 Berlin recording ends without applause too. Contrast that with over here, where I'm convinced some people only go to a concert so they can yell right after the last chord. There's someone in the Arena at the Proms who usually breaks into extended full-volume 'bravoooooos' and even 'bravissimo'. Utterly obnoxious.

[Pulcinella]

Some Bernstein and MTT releases are of live performances without applause too.
Maybe US audiences are similarly restrained in their response; Richard may well be able to tell us.

[richardfinegold]

Some Bernstein and MTT releases are of live performances without applause too.
Maybe US audiences are similarly restrained in their response; Richard may well be able to tell us.

For a while in Chicago we had a yahoo who must be the cousin of the gent described at the Proms but he fortunately has been MIA the last few years. In general fwiw I have noticed better concert audience behavior lately, with pauses before applause and much less phone use during the music