F-X Roth in Trouble

[oliver sudden]

Meanwhile at the SWR, where after some internal hand-wringing they are currently planning to go ahead with FXR’s impending appointment, there is some dissonance behind the scenes as some of the musicians seem to want to have it both ways…

https://www.diapasonmag.fr/a-la-une/les-musiciens-de-la-swr-sopposent-a-francois-xavier-roth-49686.html

[oddoneout]

Equally importantly I think, the issue of abuse comes down to one of trust. We have to work out what it is that engenders unquestioning trust in many people. Someone on a TV chat show this morning - an intelligent woman by all accounts - was talking bout how risible she found Trump to be yet while at the same time finding something mesmerising (her word) about him. It's similar to the "telephone voice" some firms use to persuade people to buy their product. My own theory is that this form of persuasiveness could well be hard-wired into the infant in the stage when when it is still physically helpless and at the mercy of more powerful grown-ups, (by definition), and that through emotional and other pressures the vital part of the process of maturation which is all about discrimination can become neutralised, thereby prolonging an individual's vulnerability into adulthood and even possibly a lifetime of psychological servitude.

That may well be so, but I think a simpler reason may be that we are animals not robots, and certain behaviours continue and may be behind actions which rationally are not in the individual's best interest. In evolutionary terms a dominant/powerful male is the one which females will choose as a mate, but elements of that carry through to modern times. Men in a position of power can have an attraction that has nothing to do with their looks or character - may well indeed over-ride them. Knowing something is wrong(in whatever sense) doesn't necessarily make it easy to deal with - on either side - and abuse of power and trust where it involves an older person's influence over a much younger one continues to be an issue not just in the classical musical world.
I first encountered elements of this when I was at secondary school, and have done so ever since, in various settings. Two particularly difficult occasions were during my time as a school governor, which between them covered the whole range of he said/she said; how could they be so stupid; different outcomes from what were superficially very similar offences; the difficulties caused when one's experience of a person as an individual is challenged by evidence.

[oddoneout]

Meanwhile at the SWR, where after some internal hand-wringing they are currently planning to go ahead with FXR’s impending appointment, there is some dissonance behind the scenes as some of the musicians seem to want to have it both ways…

https://www.diapasonmag.fr/a-la-une/...oth-49686.html

Is there an element of "well they were only text messages" I wonder, ie not bad enough to warrant major action such as withdrawing an appointment? That wouldn't be admitted to, but the judgement of the implications of such offences can tend to subjective rather than objective.

[french frank]

Is there an element of "well they were only text messages" I wonder, ie not bad enough to warrant major action such as withdrawing an appointment? That wouldn't be admitted to, but the judgement of the implications of such offences can tend to subjective rather than objective.

The dilemma for them is that they send a message either way. Either 'This is relatively minor and it's not uncommon these days'; or "We consider such behaviour totally unacceptable in this particular context and where individuals can be severely upset'.

[oliver sudden]

A previous Diapason article on the subject goes into quite a bit of detail concerning the SWR’s internal deliberations…

https://www.diapasonmag.fr/a-la-une/lorchestre-de-la-swr-maintient-francois-xavier-roth-a-son-poste-49325.html

They have clearly given some weight to FXR’s apologies and to his assurances for the future. I can’t really imagine that there could be a one-size-fits-all approach to this kind of situation. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that his reported behaviour is acceptable!

[Barbirollians]

How are they proposing to make sure it does not happen at SWR ? Refuse to let him have any of the orchestra's mobile numbers or e-mails ?

[Petrushka]

How are they proposing to make sure it does not happen at SWR ? Refuse to let him have any of the orchestra's mobile numbers or e-mails ?

Well, if it does happen again then it really will be the end of his career. The fact remains that if this matter had been dealt with in a court of law (with the assumption that criminal activity has occurred) then justice would have followed and his career would have ended anyway.

I'm at a loss to understand how certain people manage to get away with very bad behaviour while others lose their jobs and freedom for a lot less. Most of us have seen this in our own working lives at one time or another.

[richardfinegold]

Meanwhile at the SWR, where after some internal hand-wringing they are currently planning to go ahead with FXR’s impending appointment, there is some dissonance behind the scenes as some of the musicians seem to want to have it both ways…

https://www.diapasonmag.fr/a-la-une/...oth-49686.html

I am taking some conversational French online course preparing for my French trip next month but this is beyong my current level of scholarship. Can you give me a brief summary?

[richardfinegold]

I'm at a loss to understand how certain people manage to get away with very bad behaviour while others lose their jobs and freedom for a lot less. Most of us have seen this in our own working lives at one time or another.

The rules are meant for most of us but exceptions are always made for those at the top of the pyramid

[Ein Heldenleben]

I am taking some conversational French online course preparing for my French trip next month but this is beyong my current level of scholarship. Can you give me a brief summary?

48 out of 140 musicians in the SWR have objected to his rehire .
SWR have conducted an internal inquiry and (if I’ve read it right ) received no complaints. But following the revelations in Canard Enchaine they are putting in place preventive measures.



key final paragraph from Google translate


But this decision is not unanimous and some members of the orchestra wanted to make it known: according to BR Klassik, forty-eight musicians (out of the orchestra's approximately one hundred and forty instrumentalists) sent a letter to SWR's Director of Culture Programs, Anke Mai (to which some media had access) in which they explained that they accept the future collaboration with François-Xavier Roth, but did not support it. "We believe that this decision harms the image, credibility and sovereignty of the orchestra," say the signatories who require the SWR to publish a statement specifying that the orchestra was not at the origin of the decision. The request was reportedly rejected by Anke Mai, who recalls that the representatives of the orchestra had explicitly requested to be kept away from the situation. According to the Badische Zeitung media, new exchanges between the members of the orchestra and the Radio should take place at the beginning of the school year.*

by “rentrée “ I think they mean new season rather than school year which is the usual meaning in France…

[mopsus]

Oh dear very unpleasant behaviour alleged and apparently with corroborating records and photos according to the Violin Channel report . I imagine record companies are now likely, considering his ubiquity, to have lots of recordings in the can they are going to struggle to sell even if they release them at all.

There is increasing sensitivity to using the productions of those who are guilty of abusive behaviour. I am sure readers can think of their own examples, but here's one: at least one English Cathedral will now not allow compositions by convicted child abusers on its music lists. I had not come across this before this summer.

[oliver sudden]

How are they proposing to make sure it does not happen at SWR ? Refuse to let him have any of the orchestra's mobile numbers or e-mails ?

As far as I can tell from the earlier Diapason article, they’re talking about administrative measures such as setting up communication structures, including designated colleagues in the orchestra and the administration to report to, by which any whiff of impropriety can be reported, presumably anonymised, potentially causing an immediate end to his contract under the terms of a new code of conduct.

And I do indeed imagine that any requests for private contact details from FXR to the administration would set all sorts of alarm bells ringing!

[LHC]

Well, if it does happen again then it really will be the end of his career. The fact remains that if this matter had been dealt with in a court of law (with the assumption that criminal activity has occurred) then justice would have followed and his career would have ended anyway.

I'm at a loss to understand how certain people manage to get away with very bad behaviour while others lose their jobs and freedom for a lot less. Most of us have seen this in our own working lives at one time or another.

I'm not sure that's the case. Robert King managed to resurrect his career despite his conviction and prison sentence for much more serious offences than FXR's alleged behaviour.

[richardfinegold]

48 out of 140 musicians in the SWR have objected to his rehire .
SWR have conducted an internal inquiry and (if I’ve read it right ) received no complaints. But following the revelations in Canard Enchaine they are putting in place preventive measures.



key final paragraph from Google translate


But this decision is not unanimous and some members of the orchestra wanted to make it known: according to BR Klassik, forty-eight musicians (out of the orchestra's approximately one hundred and forty instrumentalists) sent a letter to SWR's Director of Culture Programs, Anke Mai (to which some media had access) in which they explained that they accept the future collaboration with François-Xavier Roth, but did not support it. "We believe that this decision harms the image, credibility and sovereignty of the orchestra," say the signatories who require the SWR to publish a statement specifying that the orchestra was not at the origin of the decision. The request was reportedly rejected by Anke Mai, who recalls that the representatives of the orchestra had explicitly requested to be kept away from the situation. According to the Badische Zeitung media, new exchanges between the members of the orchestra and the Radio should take place at the beginning of the school year.*

by “rentrée “ I think they mean new season rather than school year which is the usual meaning in France…

Thank you

[oliver sudden]

48 out of 140 musicians in the SWR have objected to his rehire .
SWR have conducted an internal inquiry and (if I’ve read it right ) received no complaints. But following the revelations in Canard Enchaine they are putting in place preventive measures.

If I’ve read it right they had no complaints resulting from his previous work with the orchestra (particularly his spell as chief conductor of one of the two orchestras that were merged to make the current band). I’m uncertain whether they sought any input from other quarters such as Les Siècles / Gürzenich / Oper Köln. Although not bothering to do so would be fairly SWR.