F-X Roth in Trouble

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  • Ein Heldenleben
    Full Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 6783

    #31
    Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
    Oh dear very unpleasant behaviour alleged and apparently with corroborating records and photos according to the Violin Channel report . I imagine record companies are now likely, considering his ubiquity, to have lots of recordings in the can they are going to struggle to sell even if they release them at all.
    The whole thing was written in rather tortuous French probably paraphrasing a press statement that’s been heavily lawyered . I seem to remember French libel laws are stricter than ours. Hence my recourse to google

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    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30292

      #33
      Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
      they explained that they accept the future collaboration with François-Xavier Roth, but did not support it. "We believe that this decision harms the image, credibility and sovereignty of the orchestra
      Nothing is perfect, and I suppose this is a compromise which represents a civilised way forward. Even the far right rioter who got the longest jail sentence said he accepted that his behaviour was 'appalling'. Whether you're among the righteous or the unrighteous on any given issue, compromise is always an option to accept or reject. "Having full regard to what has occurred ...:
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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      • oddoneout
        Full Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 9204

        #34
        Originally posted by oliver sudden View Post
        As far as I can tell from the earlier Diapason article, they’re talking about administrative measures such as setting up communication structures, including designated colleagues in the orchestra and the administration to report to, by which any whiff of impropriety can be reported, presumably anonymised, potentially causing an immediate end to his contract under the terms of a new code of conduct.

        And I do indeed imagine that any requests for private contact details from FXR to the administration would set all sorts of alarm bells ringing!
        All well and good if that were the only way of obtaining such details, but it isn't and people are remarkably careless with their personal information and, even worse, sometimes that of other people. And that's leaving out the direct approach arising from everyday social interactions, which may or may not be above board.
        Having safeguarding/whistle blowing measures in place is only as good as their implementation - which doesn't always go as intended and can leave the target of wrondoing in a worse position than before.
        I thought I read somewhere that there have been reports of concerns about him over the years - I wonder if those have been addressed, either to dismiss them or take into account when making current decisions?

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        • Barbirollians
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 11687

          #35
          I cannot see how a relationship with an orchestra where 48 of its membership say they really don't want him is likely to be sustainable.

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          • oddoneout
            Full Member
            • Nov 2015
            • 9204

            #36
            Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
            I cannot see how a relationship with an orchestra where 48 of its membership say they really don't want him is likely to be sustainable.
            It won't be the only ensemble where not all the members are happy with the choice of the person on the podium - that's partly just human nature. In terms of sustainability that comes down to how the matter affects audiences and recording sales; if the "customers" are satisfied with the arrangement(either because they accept the measures put in place to prevent further problems, or because they don't consider it to be relevant to the music they want to hear or perhaps not sufficiently egregious to warrant a boycott) then it's business as usual.
            In terms of the orchestra members' objection, the letter seems to focus on reputational and other impacts rather than the problems of working with someone whose behaviour they find unacceptable.
            "We believe that this decision harms the image, credibility and sovereignty of the orchestra,"
            It may be that within that is code for "we can't work with someone who does such things", but at face value that isn't the prime concern?
            It isn't necessarily impossible to work with someone whose personal behaviour or character one finds unacceptable, but it doesn't always make for the best outcome. Time will tell whether the publicly aired problems with Roth affect audience support and orchestra functioning to a degree that demands a rethink of his appointment.

            Comment

            • richardfinegold
              Full Member
              • Sep 2012
              • 7666

              #37
              Originally posted by oddoneout View Post


              I thought I read somewhere that there have been reports of concerns about him over the years - I wonder if those have been addressed, either to dismiss them or take into account when making current decisions?
              Indeed these issues apparently go back 20 years. I wonder how he escaped the last era of “Me too”. In fact he prospered during that time, since it’s in the last decade that his star has risen, with every release being hailed by Gramophone as the Second Coming ( American critics were more reserved).

              Comment

              • Petrushka
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 12251

                #38
                Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

                Indeed these issues apparently go back 20 years. I wonder how he escaped the last era of “Me too”. In fact he prospered during that time, since it’s in the last decade that his star has risen, with every release being hailed by Gramophone as the Second Coming ( American critics were more reserved).
                I bought his Petrushka/Rite of Spring disc when it first came out. The former was OK but I found the latter unimpressive and couldn't understand the hype it generated. I've since avoided any of his discs.
                "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

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                • richardfinegold
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 7666

                  #39
                  Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

                  I bought his Petrushka/Rite of Spring disc when it first came out. The former was OK but I found the latter unimpressive and couldn't understand the hype it generated. I've since avoided any of his discs.
                  Same, although I’ve streamed his discs so haven’t shelled out any cash.

                  Comment

                  • Retune
                    Full Member
                    • Feb 2022
                    • 314

                    #40
                    Originally posted by smittims View Post
                    I have noticed that male conductors tend to attract sexual desire in women (the figure of a commanding male standing up... need one say more?), and presumably there's the temptation to exploit this.
                    Perhaps this is what abusive conductors tell themselves, but I'm sure it looks nothing like that to those on the receiving end of their behaviour. There's no indication that the alleged recipients of Roth's unsolicited messages welcomed them in any way. Disgust would be the normal human reaction.

                    Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                    I cannot see how a relationship with an orchestra where 48 of its membership say they really don't want him is likely to be sustainable.
                    And that's just the ones who are prepared to put it in writing. I wonder how many others might be less than delighted?

                    Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                    It won't be the only ensemble where not all the members are happy with the choice of the person on the podium - that's partly just human nature.
                    Maybe so, but in most cases that won't be about extreme behaviour like that alleged here. Disliking colleagues for one reason or another is common enough in the workplace, but how many professional environments would tolerate anything like this?

                    Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                    I bought his Petrushka/Rite of Spring disc when it first came out. The former was OK but I found the latter unimpressive and couldn't understand the hype it generated. I've since avoided any of his discs.
                    When BaL did the Firebird recently and picked Dutoit just ahead of Roth, I thought the latter (also on the Ballets Russes album) stood up very well in comparison, and (not having heard the allegations about Roth) naively imagined that it was at least 'untainted' by the alleged behaviour of the conductor...

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                    • Dave2002
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 18016

                      #41
                      Seems a great choice then ... Dutoit or Roth ....:sigh:


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                      • Petrushka
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12251

                        #42
                        Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                        Seems a great choice then ... Dutoit or Roth ....:sigh:

                        If you haven't already got it, I'd strongly recommend LSO/Dorati for a complete Firebird. Don't be put off by it being recorded in 1960; it's a Mercury Living Presence issue and sounds terrific.
                        "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                        Comment

                        • Darkbloom
                          Full Member
                          • Feb 2015
                          • 706

                          #43
                          Mercury Living Presence was so consistent when it came to the discs they put out. Even if the repertoire didn't happen to be all that appealing to me I'd still want to listen because it was almost certain to be very good. It was also a great showcase for the less-celebrated orchestras like Detroit.

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                          • oliver sudden
                            Full Member
                            • Feb 2024
                            • 613

                            #44
                            Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

                            If you haven't already got it, I'd strongly recommend LSO/Dorati for a complete Firebird. Don't be put off by it being recorded in 1960; it's a Mercury Living Presence issue and sounds terrific.
                            Frankly it knocks Dutoit and Roth into a, er, cocked hat.

                            Comment

                            • Dave2002
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 18016

                              #45
                              Re my msg 41 and msg 42 which quoted it I was not referring to recordings. I used to think Dutoit was a good conductor and indeed did hear him live once not too long ago, and enjoyed the concert.

                              It was after that the rather seedy allegations and details came out. Given his age I doubt that those will make much difference now though he probably doesn't conduct live concerts or make recordings any more.

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