What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? IV

[Roger Webb]

For a significant birthday, I recently purchased a set of the complete Beethoven symphonies given live in Tokyo in April 1966 by the Berlin Philharmonic and Herbert von Karajan. They are stereo SACD Hybrid discs and sound absolutely fantastic, way, way better than any of Karajan's official recorded cycles. The orchestra is beautifully balanced between strings, woodwind, brass and timpani in a very clear acoustic (the Bunkakaikan, Tokyo).

This is a complete revelation to anyone who knows only the officially recorded cycles and heads my list of Karajan/Beethoven recordings.

I bought it from an eBay seller in Japan and while it wasn't cheap, it's worth every penny.

If anyone is interested a quick Google search will find it.

I've played symphonies 4, 5, 6 and 7 so far.

Whilst browsing for your set, I found this which coincides with his second DG set which is probably my favourite set of Beethoven syms.... I wonder what this is like - you get two PCs as well, but no indication who the pianist was.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315109035962

[Pulcinella]

Whilst browsing for your set, I found this which coincides with his second DG set which is probably my favourite set of Beethoven syms.... I wonder what this is like - you get two PCs as well, but no indication who the pianist was.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315109035962

Weissenberg?
(Result of a bit of Googling: there are YouTube links to PC3 and PC5 1977 Karajan Tokyo.)

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=l5XaTinsRRM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPTDHtMqlw

[Roger Webb]

Weissenberg?
(Result of a bit of Googling: there are YouTube links to PC3 and PC5 1977 Karajan Tokyo.)

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=l5XaTinsRRM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPTDHtMqlw

Thanks Pulcinella, I'm wondering if these '77 and the '66 syms are taken from radio broadcasts...I can just see a Tokyo FM sticker on the '77 box. As for the '66 set I'm not sure Japan had stereo FM back then...we didn't. Interesting though.

[Petrushka]

https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=14220

This is the one. I can't seem to find it on ebay anymore.

I've also got the 1977 Tokyo cycle but the earlier one is much better. Both cost an arm and a leg (well an arm) but that doesn't matter to the geeky collector!

[Roger Webb]

https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=14220

This is the one. I can't seem to find it on ebay anymore.

I've also got the 1977 Tokyo cycle but the earlier one is much better. Both cost an arm and a leg (well an arm) but that doesn't matter to the geeky collector!

Looks like radio broadcast doesn't it....and with Gundula Janowitz and Matti Talvela in the 9th.

This is the one you have isn't it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123767846679

[Petrushka]

Looks like radio broadcast doesn't it....and with Gundula Janowitz and Matti Talvela in the 9th.

This is the one you have isn't it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123767846679

Yes, that's it. I couldn't find it on ebay for some reason.

(And my 12,000th post too!!)

[richardfinegold]

For a significant birthday, I recently purchased a set of the complete Beethoven symphonies given live in Tokyo in April 1966 by the Berlin Philharmonic and Herbert von Karajan. They are stereo SACD Hybrid discs and sound absolutely fantastic, way, way better than any of Karajan's official recorded cycles. The orchestra is beautifully balanced between strings, woodwind, brass and timpani in a very clear acoustic (the Bunkakaikan, Tokyo).

This is a complete revelation to anyone who knows only the officially recorded cycles and heads my list of Karajan/Beethoven recordings.

I bought it from an eBay seller in Japan and while it wasn't cheap, it's worth every penny.

If anyone is interested a quick Google search will find it.

I've played symphonies 4, 5, 6 and 7 so far.

I was unable to find this after a quick search. If someone could provide the actual link I would be grateful.
The 63 set on Blu Ray has slowly become my go to set

[pastoralguy]

Schubert. Piano Sonata in Bb D.960.

Clifford Curzon. DECCA. An original 1987 cd. Charity shop find.

Wonderful playing.

[silvestrione]

For a significant birthday, I recently purchased a set of the complete Beethoven symphonies given live in Tokyo in April 1966 by the Berlin Philharmonic and Herbert von Karajan. They are stereo SACD Hybrid discs and sound absolutely fantastic, way, way better than any of Karajan's official recorded cycles. The orchestra is beautifully balanced between strings, woodwind, brass and timpani in a very clear acoustic (the Bunkakaikan, Tokyo).

This is a complete revelation to anyone who knows only the officially recorded cycles and heads my list of Karajan/Beethoven recordings.

I bought it from an eBay seller in Japan and while it wasn't cheap, it's worth every penny.

If anyone is interested a quick Google search will find it.

I've played symphonies 4, 5, 6 and 7 so far.

Oh no, go away...How can I afford that? Sounds marvellous. (But so does the 2014 remastering of the 1963 studio set, though i am excited by your description of the balance in the Japan set)

[Roger Webb]

I was unable to find this after a quick search. If someone could provide the actual link I would be grateful.
The 63 set on Blu Ray has slowly become my go to set

Have a look at #185.... But here's it again....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123767846679

Or this.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153623549501

[richardfinegold]

Thanks Pulcinella, I'm wondering if these '77 and the '66 syms are taken from radio broadcasts...I can just see a Tokyo FM sticker on the '77 box. As for the '66 set I'm not sure Japan had stereo FM back then...we didn't. Interesting though.

Thanks for the link and yes I am also concerned about the issue of stereo in 1966 in Japan. Perhaps Petrushka can help here?

[richardfinegold]

This might be a good place to discuss the merits of the Karajan sixties vs seventies cycle. I remember the critical response to the later set was somewhat mixed. There was a lot of “why did he bother “ “he sounds on autopilot “ written. I eventually got around to exploring and admiring the earlier set.
I picked up a second hand CD of 5/6 from the seventies set and was hugely impressed. The orchestra sounds just that much more potent and it strike me as mannered in the least. I also streamed the 9th from the seventies and was similarly impressed.
The live Karajan recordings that I have obtained from St. Laurent studio, all dating from seventies FM broadcasts, have all impressed me for the energy that live performances have vs the studio performances. They are valuable supplements to the studio versions. So I might purchase the less costly seventies version on offer here.

[Petrushka]

Thanks for the link and yes I am also concerned about the issue of stereo in 1966 in Japan. Perhaps Petrushka can help here?

Provenance is a vexed question when buying 'unofficial' recordings and I understand that.

To take the two sets in reverse, the 1977 Tokyo discs were recorded by Tokyo FM and, good as it is, does sound like a radio recording. It clearly sounds typical of the BPO of that time.

The 1966 set is issued by King International but, alas, the booklet is entirely in Japanese and there is no information as to exactly what these are. However, having said that, from the evidence of the performances themselves this is without doubt the Berlin Philharmonic. By 1966 the orchestra hadn't been fully 'Karajanised' with the rich, full string tone that became their hallmark. The woodwind, nicely balanced, are absolutely the BPO, especially oboe and flute. Also typical of the BPO is the crisp timpani attack. Comparison with the Cluytens cycle will show what I mean. Also notable are the absence of repeats which is usual for Karajan and familiar from his official cycles.

In sum, what I think we have in the 1966 set is a live recording of the concerts but not a radio broadcast. The sound is just too good to be derived from radio and would explain why they are in stereo. Is anyone with knowledge of Japanese practice able to confirm if this is the likely case? Whatever, it is a revelation.

[smittims]

Othmar Schoeck, Cello Concerto.

Schoeck was a Swiss composer, early 20th cent. romantic. His music has a gently-sighing melancholy , stemming from his personality, which involved him in unsatisfying love affairs. This concerto is a long-time favourite of mine. There's also a violin concerto and some songs.

[richardfinegold]

Provenance is a vexed question when buying 'unofficial' recordings and I understand that.

To take the two sets in reverse, the 1977 Tokyo discs were recorded by Tokyo FM and, good as it is, does sound like a radio recording. It clearly sounds typical of the BPO of that time.

The 1966 set is issued by King International but, alas, the booklet is entirely in Japanese and there is no information as to exactly what these are. However, having said that, from the evidence of the performances themselves this is without doubt the Berlin Philharmonic. By 1966 the orchestra hadn't been fully 'Karajanised' with the rich, full string tone that became their hallmark. The woodwind, nicely balanced, are absolutely the BPO, especially oboe and flute. Also typical of the BPO is the crisp timpani attack. Comparison with the Cluytens cycle will show what I mean. Also notable are the absence of repeats which is usual for Karajan and familiar from his official cycles.

In sum, what I think we have in the 1966 set is a live recording of the concerts but not a radio broadcast. The sound is just too good to be derived from radio and would explain why they are in stereo. Is anyone with knowledge of Japanese practice able to confirm if this is the likely case? Whatever, it is a revelation.

That’s helpful, but it is very unusual to have live stereo recordings from that era