Beethoven 9 at 200

[richardfinegold]

I remember the Dorati RPO Ninth because when I was a Medical Student in Detroit, Dorati became the DSO conductor and kicked off his reign with a Beethoven Symphony Cycle. The local shops carried the RPO Ninth because there just wasn’t that much Dorati Beethoven recordings to sample. Alas, his Beethoven Ninth concert was not terribly memorable except for my ex wife nodding off and audibly snoring during slow movement, and I remember the RPO being similar

[Barbirollians]

A poignant Beethoven 9 is Lenny’s Christmas Day in Berlin 1989 with a scratch orchestra of top European players . It’s a bit slow for me but very moving . Perhaps even more so for how those high hopes have in so many ways been dashed.

[smittims]

Yes, wasn't it Bernard Shaw who said 'a performance of the Ninth Symphony is not an entertainment; it is a celebration. ' ?

Coincidentally, I found yesterday a nice clean copy of the Ansermet recording in a charity shop. Curiously, it was reissued on mono on Ace of Clubs and in stereo on Ace of Diamonds, a few shillings more. It's not an 'epic' heaven-storming performance but it is neat and well-considered. I found it satisfying, despite his tempo for the third movement, more andante than adagio.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, wasn't it Bernard Shaw who said 'a performance of the Ninth Symphony is not an entertainment; it is a celebration. ' ?

Coincidentally, I found yesterday a nice clean copy of the Ansermet recording in a charity shop. Curiously, it was reissued on mono on Ace of Clubs and in stereo on Ace of Diamonds, a few shillings more. It's not an 'epic' heaven-storming performance but it is neat and well-considered. I found it satisfying, despite his tempo for the third movement, more andante than adagio.

The metronome marking is crotchet = 60 I.e.a beat a second.That’s faster than most conductors take it.

[Roslynmuse]

Yes, wasn't it Bernard Shaw who said 'a performance of the Ninth Symphony is not an entertainment; it is a celebration. ' ?

Coincidentally, I found yesterday a nice clean copy of the Ansermet recording in a charity shop. Curiously, it was reissued on mono on Ace of Clubs and in stereo on Ace of Diamonds, a few shillings more. It's not an 'epic' heaven-storming performance but it is neat and well-considered. I found it satisfying, despite his tempo for the third movement, more andante than adagio.

The Ansermet recording (on my dad's Ace of Clubs LP) was the first one I knew, and I now have the complete cycle on Decca Eloquence. It may not be the most polished set but I think it is surprisingly modern sounding in phrasing and tempi. Joan Sutherland and Anton Dermota amongst the soloists in No 9.

[smittims]

I'm quite sure Beethoven misread his metronome, or his markings have been misread, or something was wrong with the metronome. His music just sounds sily and trivial when played at those speeds. I'm glad I live in a country where we're allowed to chose our own tempo and not have it imposed on us by totalitarian musicologists!

[oliver sudden]

Well the tempi are indeed imposed on us one way or another unless one happens to be conducting. At least nowadays those of us who find his metronome markings entirely reasonable have a few options to choose from!

(having said that I can’t come to terms with two of the printed metronome marks in the 9th. 116 for the minim is anything but Presto when the music goes in crotchets, and 84 for the dotted crotchet in the march in the finale is certainly not Allegro assai vivace!)

[smittims]

Metronome markings can be misleading. If you take the big tune in 'Jupiter' (from the Planets, not Mozart!) at the marking shown in the score it sounds terribly slow . Holst himself, and not surprsingly Boult, take it considerably faster. Elgar was notorious for not observing his own printed tempi to the letter. Didn't someone say 'the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life'?

[LMcD]

Metronome markings can be misleading. If you take the big tune in 'Jupiter' (from the Planets, not Mozart!) at the marking shown in the score it sounds terribly slow . Holst himself, and not surprsingly Boult, take it considerably faster. Elgar was notorious for not observing his own printed tempi to the letter. Didn't someone say 'the letter killeth, but he spirit giveth life'?

2 Corinthians 3:6

[smittims]

Thank you, and that gives me a chance to correct my typo.

[oliver sudden]

Once upon a time I saw a Simon Rattle programme in which among other things he tried to show how the metronome marking in the first movement of Beethoven 3 made no sense because it was much too fast. He bravely set off in one of the passages with the quaver-two semis figure. It sounded excellent!

Many years later I read an interview with him in Diapason where he was asked something along the lines of whether there was anything he particularly regretted. He said something along the lines of: once upon a time in a TV programme I tried to show how the metronome marking in the first movement of the Eroica was much too fast. We played a bit at the given tempo. Suddenly Beethoven was in the room!

[silvestrione]

Once upon a time I saw a Simon Rattle programme in which among other things he tried to show how the metronome marking in the first movement of Beethoven 3 made no sense because it was much too fast. He bravely set off in one of the passages with the quaver-two semis figure. It sounded excellent!

Many years later I read an interview with him in Diapason where he was asked something along the lines of whether there was anything he particularly regretted. He said something along the lines of: once upon a time in a TV programme I tried to show how the metronome marking in the first movement of the Eroica was much too fast. We played a bit at the given tempo. Suddenly Beethoven was in the room!

I was there! (Well, watching, I mean..) He actually said something at the time, along the lines of 'oh...that's rather good after all' or similar.

[richardfinegold]

Well that’s cool to see a musician evolve a view over time. As listeners many of us have done the same

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Coincidentally, I found yesterday a nice clean copy of the Ansermet recording in a charity shop. Curiously, it was reissued on mono on Ace of Clubs and in stereo on Ace of Diamonds, a few shillings more. It's not an 'epic' heaven-storming performance but it is neat and well-considered. I found it satisfying, despite his tempo for the third movement, more andante than adagio.

It’s a very fine performance. I’m not a huge fan of this conductor’s Beethoven, but his 9th is in a different league, and beautifully recorded. The CD transfer, however, does appear to have been the same one who transferred other Decca B9s, doing so (?) without a score, and leaving a gap in the slow movement, where the LP side turn occurred. Most annoying.