Radio 3 Schedule changes

[french frank]

Although I do not listen to Classical Live, I am wondering in what way playing Das Lied von der Erde a movement each day is not "dumbing down".

The problem is that too many at the BBC - and now alas at R3 apparently - simply don't understand the points that are being made. Or, worse, disingenuously pretend not to understand. I'm not sure which applies to Mr Jackson.

[smittims]

I do think playing one movement at a time is 'dumbing down'. After the main 3 pm. work Classical Live gets very CFM-ish with few items over 3 minutes, and separated by chat and trailers.

Apparently it's 'snobbery' to want to hear a longer work complete. But surely the real 'snobs' would be those who pretend they're classical music fans by letting their friends hear them listening to Alfie Boe or Katherine Jenkins but who wouldn't sit through a whole Haydn symphony.

[Serial_Apologist]

I do think playing one movement at a time is 'dumbing down'. After the main 3 pm. work Classical Live gets very CFM-ish with few items over 3 minutes, and separated by chat and trailers.

Apparently it's 'snobbery' to want to hear a longer work complete. But surely the real 'snobs' would be those who pretend they're classical music fans by letting their friends hear them listening to Alfie Boe or Katherine Jenkins but who wouldn't sit through a whole Haydn symphony.

They are people who also live by that old nostrum "Time is money". Which it is, actually, under capitalism.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Although I do not listen to Classical Live, I am wondering in what way playing Das Lied von der Erde a movement each day is not "dumbing down".

You absolutely right. He just can’t see it . You don’t look at a fragment of a great painting do you ?

I am very intrigued by the removed terrible pun,

If only others has your self restraint.

[oddoneout]

Although I do not listen to Classical Live, I am wondering in what way playing Das Lied von der Erde a movement each day is not "dumbing down".

I wonder if the rationale is that by putting out small chunks of a "challenging"(german, heavyweight composer, writes long pieces...) work there is a better chance of non-elitist ignoramuses, aka new audience(or at least that's the impression I get given how R3 is now being put out), being exposed to "classical music" and not put off, even perhaps coming back for more?
Trouble is, that rather plays into our accusations about dumbing down it seems to me. Making such music accessible(which is a good thing in principle) takes effort, time, and above all intelligence, to do well and effectively. I may be a R3 listener but programmes of that type would appeal to me as well as novices, as my knowledge of music is largely of performing it or listening to it, not knowing the technicalities or background in many cases. That's where CotW can be useful - so long as I can listen to it - and NB Mr J et al not everyone can listen again, in the same way not everyone has a smartphone.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wonder if the rationale is that by putting out small chunks of a "challenging"(german, heavyweight composer, writes long pieces...) work there is a better chance of non-elitist ignoramuses, aka new audience(or at least that's the impression I get given how R3 is now being put out), being exposed to "classical music" and not put off, even perhaps coming back for more?
Trouble is, that rather plays into our accusations about dumbing down it seems to me. Making such music accessible(which is a good thing in principle) takes effort, time, and above all intelligence, to do well and effectively. I may be a R3 listener but programmes of that type would appeal to me as well as novices, as my knowledge of music is largely of performing it or listening to it, not knowing the technicalities or background in many cases. That's where CotW can be useful - so long as I can listen to it - and NB Mr J et al not everyone can listen again, in the same way not everyone has a smartphone.

Although the Rückert Leider work as single songs DLVDE just doesn’t . Der Abscheid only makes really sense if you’ve heard the rest. By the way the tenor in this recording sounded a bit strangulated for my tastes.

Your points re Sounds are well made.The controller will be perfectly aware of this - I think it was Richard Morrison who won’t be aware of BBC policy who made the not particularly relevant Sounds point.

When the BBC did a survey of older people back in the 90’s they found that many never moved the dial from their favourite station on FM because they were frightened they wouldn’t find it again. They didn’t have the fine finger control needed to tune a small FM transistor. Many who did move the dial marked the stations with stickies as they couldn’t read the frequency numbers which , very unhelpfully , vary from transmitter to transmitter.

What hope do some 80 year olds have negotiating Sounds ? I’ve spent a lifetime in the business working as a vision and sound mixer (back in analogue days ) , I can do basic video editing on Final Cut Pro but even I struggle to negotiate the cumbersome Radio Schedule page.

[Andrew Slater]

Although I do not listen to Classical Live, I am wondering in what way playing Das Lied von der Erde a movement each day is not "dumbing down".

Imagine the audience reaction if Radio 4 were to adopt a similar philosophy and chopped up all the afternoon plays in a week and broadcast a collection of segments from each one each day under the heading of Afternoon Play. There would be an outcry.

[oddoneout]

Is anyone able to share the Times article? Having muttered at the quote shown

he has saved the BBC Singers

that I don't believe he was the saviour, it was several hundred professionals and influential persons, plus lay people passionate about music, I would be interested to see what else is claimed in the way of good things the saviour has brought us.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Imagine the audience reaction if Radio 4 were to adopt a similar philosophy and chopped up all the afternoon plays in a week and broadcast a collection of segments from each one each day under the heading of Afternoon Play. There would be an outcry.

Well they do put out serials …I wouldn’t have a problem with an act per night of a Shakespeare play but splitting up Das Lied is just silly ..

[Andrew Slater]

Well they do put out serials …I wouldn’t have a problem with an act per night of a Shakespeare play but splitting up Das Lied is just silly ..

But this would be a set of serials back-to-back, each about 9 minutes long, in a 45-minute programme. Oh, and not necessarily in the right order!

[cria]

When Kaufmann recorded Schone Mullerin 10+ yrs ago, at least one song was broadcast at 7am each weekday (& possibly another sequence later on.) I loved hearing this magnificent voice in lieder for the first time. Perfectly handled by Beeb

[french frank]

I wouldn’t have a problem with an act per night of a Shakespeare play but splitting up Das Lied is just silly ..

Others might say that putting on an act per night of Shakespeare (which R4 of course has done) is just silly ... It's an obvious example of 'dumbing down' [dictionary definition] - a whole play is just too much to take in in one go. Just as a whole symphony is too long for a single sitting.

[LMcD]

Although the Rückert Leider work as single songs DLVDE just doesn’t . Der Abscheid only makes really sense if you’ve heard the rest. By the way the tenor in this recording sounded a bit strangulated for my tastes.

Your points re Sounds are well made.The controller will be perfectly aware of this - I think it was Richard Morrison who won’t be aware of BBC policy who made the not particularly relevant Sounds point.

When the BBC did a survey of older people back in the 90’s they found that many never moved the dial from their favourite station on FM because they were frightened they wouldn’t find it again. They didn’t have the fine finger control needed to tune a small FM transistor. Many who did move the dial marked the stations with stickies as they couldn’t read the frequency numbers which , very unhelpfully , vary from transmitter to transmitter.

What hope do some 80 year olds have negotiating Sounds ? I’ve spent a lifetime in the business working as a vision and sound mixer (back in analogue days ) , I can do basic video editing on Final Cut Pro but even I struggle to negotiate the cumbersome Radio Schedule page.

There's at least one 80-year-old who has no problems with Sounds or the Radio 3 Schedules pages.

[Retune]

That's funny. It doesn't look like a new interview. It looks mostly like some gobbets from The Times and a regurgitation of the publicity when he was appointed:

""BBC Radio 3 is unlike any other station: a network delivering ambitious , unique content, with live classical music at its core." Remind me: how much live classical music is there now? Does R3 have a rather tiny core nowadays (Proms, of course, excepted. And assuming they won't just be available on Sounds).

Really, how can an intelligent human being say "Don't they know they can listen on Sounds?" and also complain that when he's out walking his dog his phone keeps bleeping? Perhaps one of his kids can show him how to turn it off.

The bit on the RT website isn't the interview, it just uses a couple of quotes from it. Both this and the Times piece are drawing on the full interview in the printed magazine (p106 if anyone is interested - I skimmed it earlier). The Times must have seen an advance copy or press release.

In other revelations:

- When Sam Jackson arrived at R3. he apparently became concerned that half the audience weren't listening at the weekends. I suppose his solution was to make the weekends just like weekdays, hence Tom Service etc.

- The Proms will feature a pop artist known for their 'baroquely sexual' stage shows (I assume this doesn't mean they like performing to Corelli, but we live in hope).

[french frank]

The bit on the RT website isn't the interview, it just uses a couple of quotes from it. Both this and the Times piece are drawing on the full interview in the printed magazine (p106 if anyone is interested - I skimmed it earlier). The Times must have seen an advance copy or press release.

In other revelations:

- When Sam Jackson arrived at R3. he apparently became concerned that half the audience weren't listening at the weekends. I suppose his solution was to make the weekends just like weekdays, hence Tom Service etc.

- The Proms will feature a pop artist known for their 'baroquely sexual' stage shows (I assume this doesn't mean they like performing to Corelli, but we live in hope).

Thanks for that. And my apologies to Mr Jackson for suggesting that he said listeners who objected to RR's time slot change should 'get their minds around' listening via Sounds. That was Richard Morrison, so he and Mr Jackson (who suggested criticism was just a manifestation of listener snobbery) were both insulting people who complained about the schedule changes.