Discovering the Music of Antiquity BBC4

[kernelbogey]

Discovering the Music of Antiquity

I just dipped into this programme for a couple of minutes in the middle and decided it looked interesting.

It's on as I write: BBC4 4 March 2100

[oddoneout]

I watched it and found it interesting. I had thought it was a repeat of a similar programme I saw a while ago and was happy to see again, but this was new to me.

[kernelbogey]

Discovering the Music of Antiquity

I just dipped into this programme for a couple of minutes in the middle and decided it looked interesting.

It's on as I write: BBC4 4 March 2100

Here's the blurb. Available on iPlayer.

When a music score is uncovered deep within the storerooms of the Louvre, musical historians scramble to realise the potential of this piece of papyrus. The text's grammatical features give us a clue to the composer's identity: Carcinus, an author cited by Aristotle in his Rhetoric. His name is engraved on a wall in the Parthenon, and the story of his life offers an insight into the history of Greek musicians, who were revered like gods and welcomed across the Mediterranean to take part in competitions modelled on the Olympic Games.

The discovery of the papyrus, more specifically an ancient version of the tragedy entitled Medea, throws open a new mission by researchers to hear the music sung through modern arrangement. But to listen to the Medea as it was heard by the Greeks 2,400 years ago, it still has to be played on period instruments.

From the Greek cities of Anatolia to the Ptolemies’ Egypt, from the mythical site of Delphi to the discoveries made in Pompeii, relive this voyage along the Mediterranean coast, where archaeological excavations have unearthed instrument remains.

[oddoneout]

Here's the blurb. Available on iPlayer.

When a music score is uncovered deep within the storerooms of the Louvre, musical historians scramble to realise the potential of this piece of papyrus. The text's grammatical features give us a clue to the composer's identity: Carcinus, an author cited by Aristotle in his Rhetoric. His name is engraved on a wall in the Parthenon, and the story of his life offers an insight into the history of Greek musicians, who were revered like gods and welcomed across the Mediterranean to take part in competitions modelled on the Olympic Games.

The discovery of the papyrus, more specifically an ancient version of the tragedy entitled Medea, throws open a new mission by researchers to hear the music sung through modern arrangement. But to listen to the Medea as it was heard by the Greeks 2,400 years ago, it still has to be played on period instruments.

From the Greek cities of Anatolia to the Ptolemies’ Egypt, from the mythical site of Delphi to the discoveries made in Pompeii, relive this voyage along the Mediterranean coast, where archaeological excavations have unearthed instrument remains.

It's a pity that blurb skimmed over the beginnings. What was "discovered" was bits of papyrus in a biscuit tin(or similar) of bits and bobs. It was only after a painstaking process of unfolding it(talk about dedication and patience!) that the text could be laid out and read, but the fact it was a music score took a lot more work to recognise.
For those so inclined it is also a chance to brush up on French language skills as it is very much a French undertaking, with much of the speaking to camera in French - with subtitles obviously. I don't know how much of what I saw I will retain - there was a lot to take in - but the ancient Greek approach to writing down music was certainly different, not least in having different systems for instrumental and vocal parts.

[smittims]

The only reservation I have about this enterprise is the amount of conjecture that is involved , including unconscious adoption of anachronistic ideas about music . Many years ago I attended such an event where an attempt was made ot revive and perform ancient Greek music. It all sounded rather modern and western to me, and I couldn't help feeling they'd filled the gaps with ideas they already had about song and dance generally. Similarly, one of the EBU Christmas music days a few years ago included a rather elaborate polyphonic piece for voices, strings and even percussion which was actually based on a single line of melody. Everything else was added in the spirit of 'well, we feel they'd have done something like this...' It was all a bit too 'Phillipa Gregory ' for me.

As long as listeners are clearly warned that most of what they hear will be conjecture, that's fine, but I don't like to think people wil be misled into thinking 'this is exactly how it was' . I don't think that even with Mr . Levin and his Mozart reconstructions, or J-E Gardiner and Bach, so inevitably I'm sceptical. Even so, it's a praiseworthy idea.

[oddoneout]

The only reservation I have about this enterprise is the amount of conjecture that is involved , including unconscious adoption of anachronistic ideas about music . Many years ago I attended such an event where an attempt was made ot revive and perform ancient Greek music. It all sounded rather modern and western to me, and I couldn't help feeling they'd filled the gaps with ideas they already had about song and dance generally. Similarly, one of the EBU Christmas music days a few years ago included a rather elaborate polyphonic piece for voices, strings and even percussion which was actually based on a single line of melody. Everything else was added in the spirit of 'well, we feel they'd have done something like this...' It was all a bit too 'Phillipa Gregory ' for me.

As long as listeners are clearly warned that most of what they hear will be conjecture, that's fine, but I don't like to think people wil be misled into thinking 'this is exactly how it was' . I don't think that even with Mr . Levin and his Mozart reconstructions, or J-E Gardiner and Bach, so inevitably I'm sceptical. Even so, it's a praiseworthy idea.

I agree about the dangers of the jump from "this is the evidence we have" to "this is our recreation of..."It so one of the things that I find more and more irritating about the modern way of doing historical documentaries - the insertion of dramatised snippets, the leaps of conjecture etc. Part of the problem is the unwillingness/inability to take into account that our view of the world is very very different from hundreds of years ago - or just good old ignorance, perhaps from lack of curiosity, or because the need to tell a good story overrides the facts, which in any case may be time-consuming/expensive to ascertain. If I, as a lay person, can watch something and say -"hang on a minute, why do you say that, how did you reach that conclusion, what about x?" - then perhaps conjecture may have overstepped the mark?
That wasn't something I felt this programme suffered from, perhaps in part because there are centuries worth of written evidence about the music and how/when/where it was performed, and also the visual evidence from the likes of ceramics and engravings on buildings*. There were some pieces played on the aulos, and some sung items, but I felt they were based on what was currently known, rather than what would sound good to modern ears. The closest they got was the African harpist who helped with the reconstructed Egyptian harp which is to all intents and purposes the same as the one he plays himself - but it was made clear that what he was playing in the short clip was not a reconstruction of ancient music. Possibly not as far adrift from the original though as the example you mention.

* Not a UK production might have had something to do with it as well - experts talking about their subject without confected content added or overlaid - ie assuming the audience will be willing and able to concentrate on, and absorb, factual content 'au naturel'.

[gradus]

Interesting programme featuring very intense French experts. The German chap playing the reconstructed Aulos seemed to have endless breath or was he circular breathing, it certainly looked like something unusual was happening.

[oddoneout]

Interesting programme featuring very intense French experts. The German chap playing the reconstructed Aulos seemed to have endless breath or was he circular breathing, it certainly looked like something unusual was happening.

I'm not sure it was true circular breathing(too noisy, inevitable perhaps if trying to keep two reeds supplied at once), but if you watched his throat you could see him gulping in air.